Ken, the important thing is that you do the measurements necessary in order to decide how to proceed.
With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist ----- Original Message ----- From: "JAMES PHELPS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate > Jan, Ken, > I have pushed the procedure to double the acid amount in the first phase, > dewatered and went to the second phase (base base) in small batches > without > problem. I suggest testing in small amounts and working up a procedure > that > fits the product. This will take some time to do but when you get "it" you > can get repeatbility thereafter. I did use Venturi acid introduction so > that perhaps makes a big difference as well. > > Jim > > >>From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate >>Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:48:10 +0100 >> >>If you have that much tri-glycerides you may most likely do one acid >>esterification followed by one base trans-esterification. Just check the >>FFA >>value after the first step after removal of the (acidic) water phase. If >>the >>FFA value is < 5%, go as described above, in any other case as described >>before. >>With best regards >>AGERATEC AB >>Jan Warnqvist >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:02 AM >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate >> >> >> > Thanks again Jan. >> > >> > Its 71.8% FFA. But doing acid esterification twice? Do you finish with >>a >> > base transesterification after the two acid esterification? >> > Please pardon my ignorance. Can you expound a bit. First time to hear >> > about acid esterification twice. Appreciate very much your help on the >> > matter. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > >> > Ken >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 4:46 PM >> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate >> > >> > >> >> No, if you are working with 100% free fatty acids, you will have to do >> >> the >> >> ACID esterification twice with water content evapoation inbetween >> >> >> >> With best regards >> >> AGERATEC AB >> >> Jan Warnqvist. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:22 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate >> >> >> >> >> >> > Thanks Jan, >> >> > >> >> > So you are saying that Aleks Kac's two stage process is the way to >> >> > go >> >> > on >> >> > this one? Start with the acid-based stage and finish with the >> > base-based >> >> > stage. That's doing it twice right? >> >> > >> >> > Am doing small batches on the single stage base process (about 100 >> > liters >> >> > veg. oil). Will blending this with new veg. oil make a difference? >> >> > >> >> > Been reading the Foolproof Method over and over again to familiarize >> >> > myself. >> >> > Looks like it. >> >> > >> >> > Much thanks again. >> >> > >> >> > Ken >> >> > >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "Jan Warnqvist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> > To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:35 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> Hello Ken, >> >> >> fatty acids are possible to esterify with an acid catalyst. The >>formed >> >> > water >> >> >> has to be drawn off, so it is always nice to start with a low water >> >> > content. >> >> >> Performed correctly, the esterification will produce 90-95% esters. >> >> > Usually >> >> >> these kinds of reactions are performed twice for a good conversion >> > grade. >> >> >> >> >> >> With best regards >> >> >> AGERATEC AB >> >> >> Jan Warnqvist >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >> To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 8:18 AM >> >> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hi everyone, >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I sent this out a few days ago. I was told by someone in the oil >> > mill >> >> >> > that >> >> >> > crude fatty acid distillate is just a fancy name for their >> >> >> > seconds >> >> >> > or >> >> >> > reject >> >> >> > oils, which soap factories take from them and make into soap. >> >> >> > Anyone >> >> > has >> >> >> > any experience with this kind of stock being made into biodiesel? >> > Will >> >> >> > such >> >> >> > a high FFA content give problems? >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Thanks. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Ken >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >> > To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >> >> >> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:15 AM >> >> >> > Subject: [Biofuel] Crude fatty acid distillate >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> An oil mill has just told me that they have excess of crude >> >> >> >> fatty >> > acid >> >> >> >> distillate which they can give me with the following >>specifications >> > : >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Free Fatty Acid (As Lauric) - 71.8% >> >> >> >> Iodine Value mg I/g - 10 >> >> >> >> Total Fatty Matter - 96% >> >> >> >> Moisture & Impurities - 0.5% >> >> >> >> Saponifiable Value mg KOH/g - 260 >> >> >> >> Unsaponifiable Matter - 0.32% >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I am now doing some small production for my own use with a blend >>of >> >> >> >> WVO >> >> >> > and >> >> >> >> new oil on the single stage process. I've read up on the two >>stage >> >> >> > process >> >> >> >> and it looks like the above will take a two stage process with >> >> >> >> 71.8% >> >> > FFA. >> >> >> >> Am I right? Anyone out there with some thoughts on the matter? >> >> >> >> Its >> >> > free >> >> >> >> stuff for me although its only about 200liters monthly. Would >> >> >> >> it >> >> >> >> be >> >> >> > better >> >> >> >> to blend it or process it separately? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Ken >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> Biofuel mailing list >> >> >> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> >> >> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives >>(50,000 >> >> >> > messages): >> >> >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >> > Biofuel mailing list >> >> >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> >> >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives >> >> >> > (50,000 >> >> >> > messages): >> >> >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Biofuel mailing list >> >> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> >> >> >> > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> >> >> >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> >> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> >> >> >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> >> > messages): >> >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Biofuel mailing list >> >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> >> > >> > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> > >> >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> > >> >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> >> > messages): >> >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Biofuel mailing list >> >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> >> >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >> >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> > messages): >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Biofuel mailing list >> > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> > >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> > >> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> > >> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >> > messages): >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> > >> > >> > >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
