Keith,
>> > Pity you don't seem to have read the rest of it. Oh well. >> >> I did read his entire article, not just excerpts. > > No doubt. You don't seem to have read what I wrote though. You're > telling me about Rumsfeld and aspartame, for instance, but I already > said that. Hopeless confusion - in your attempts to defend Sloppy > Mark you're now trying to convince me of the dangers of Tamiflu. The remarks about aspartame were merely a by-the-way. The link above this btw was exactly what you wanted, i.e., Mercola's take on Rumsfeld. > > :-( > > You keep re-interpreting what Mark said. > >>So Mark >>says they say it's >>safe by not removing it. > > He didn't say that, he said this: > >> >> >>Tamiflu is just one of many cases where children are dying and the >> >> >>FDA stands firm declaring it safe.[i] > > It's wrong, the FDA does not declare it safe, they stipulate a > warning, over exactly what Mark refers to, which is the deaths in > Japan. Of course it's just a band-aid, that's not the point. That is the point. The band-aid warning does not declare it unsafe. As long as the stuff is out there, being prescribed, it is assumed safe when used as directed, the standard proviso for all drugs including injected ones. Maybe we'll have agree to disagree? Peace, D. Mindock The > point is that Mark said the FDA declares it safe, but they don't. > Mark's wrong, that's all there is to it. > >> > If Mark "sees his job as one of waking people up" then you shouldn't >> > have to say "I think what Mark means when he says that..." or that >> > he's "much more right than wrong on this". He has an obligation to >> > get it right, it's easy enough to check but he got it wrong. If you >> > want to wake people up then it should be clear and straightforward >> > but it's shrill and sloppy... > > Your continuing confusion about it is simply added testimony. > > When people are inaccurate and shrill like Mark they end up preaching > only to the converted. Like you're doing with me. It furthers no > causes. Never mind, I give up. > > Keith > > >>Hi Keith, >> Here's a link that shows that Mercola thinks Rumsfeld is profiting >>handsomely from the >>hoax: >>http://www.mercola.com/2006/apr/4/donald_rumsfeld_rakes_in_5_million_ >>for_tamiflu.htm >>BTW, Rumsfeld also is raking it in from aspartame, a neurotoxin sold as a >>sweetener, with approval of >>FDA (after years of its rejection.) >> The area of product safety is a gray one. It is one of risk/benefit >> ratio. >>No drug is safe but all >>are sold for short term use and to be used as directed. What the FDA did >>wrt >>tamiflu is try to >>put a band-aid solution, a precautionary warning, on a vaccine that is >>worst >>than most. Does that >>make it unsafe? If it were unsafe it should be taken off the market. So >>Mark >>says they say it's >>safe by not removing it. As long as it's being used it will kill again in >>spite of the precaution. >>You know that. >> I did read his entire article, not just excerpts. >>Peace, D. Mindock >> >> >> > Hello DM >> > >> >>G'day Kirk, >> > >> > Not Kirk, it was me. >> > >> >>Mercola says the bird flu is a hoax. >> > >> > Yes I know he says that, I said I didn't know what he said about >> > Rumsfeld. >> > >> >>Rumsfeld Bird Flu Hoax >> >> Original breaking story that you won't find anywhere else in the >> >> news. >> >>Read what the media won?t tell you about the Avian flu hoax. >> >> >> >> www.mercola.com/2005/oct/25/rumsfeld_to_profit_from_avian_flu_hoax.htm >> >> - Mar 23, 2007 - >> >> >> >> >> >> Also I think Mark means when he says that >> > >> > If Mark "sees his job as one of waking people up" then you shouldn't >> > have to say "I think what Mark means when he says that..." or that >> > he's "much more right than wrong on this". He has an obligation to >> > get it right, it's easy enough to check but he got it wrong. If you >> > want to wake people up then it should be clear and straightforward >> > but it's shrill and sloppy. Weary and POed, well my heart bleeds for >> > him poor feller. >> > >> > Pity you don't seem to have read the rest of it. Oh well. >> > >> > Best >> > >> > Keith >> > >> > >> >>the FDA says Tamiflu is >> >>safe is that it does not take it off the market but merely says "be >> >>careful" >> >>shortly after the shot is adminstered. >> >>All drugs are to be used as directed, right? I think Mark is much more >> >>right >> >>than wrong on this. Yes, he can be shrill but I think >> >>he is that way because he sees his job as one of waking people up. >> >>(plus I >> >>think he is weary and POed) We are at a point in history where our >> >>health >> >>freedom is in a precarious position. As you know most people are either >> >>apathetic, ignorant, >> >>or cannot bring themselves to believe what Big Pharma has in store for >> >>them. >> >>We live now with freedoms of >> >>choice here that have already disappeared in other countries. It looks >> >>like >> >>the USA is the last country that is >> >>supposed to give up our vitamins, supplements, etc. The Codex >> >>Alimentarius >> >>is due to kick in on Dec 31, >> >>2009. We're to be pushed into a "killer" system which intends not to >> >>heal >> >>but to mask symptoms with toxic >> >>drugs, surgeries, and radiation; all expensive and deadly. >> >>Peace, D. Mindock >> >> >> >> >> >> > Hello DM >> >> > >> >> >>Tamiflu is just one of many cases where children are dying and the >> >> >>FDA stands firm declaring it safe.[i] >> >> >> >> >> >>[i] The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has said it received 103 >> >> >>reports of delirium, hallucinations and other unusual psychiatric >> >> >>behavior, mostly in Japanese children treated with Tamiflu, between >> >> >>Aug. 29, 2005, and July 6, 2006. >> >> > >> >> > Not correct. See: >> >> > >> >> > http://sciencedaily.healthology.com/infectious-diseases/article3955.htm >> >> > Tamiflu Linked to Self-Injury, Delirium >> >> > November 16, 2006 >> >> >>(HealthCentersOnline) - Reports of self-injury and delirium >> >> >>associated with the use of Tamiflu has prompted the U.S. Food & Drug >> >> >>Administration to require new warning be inserted in the prescribing >> >> >>and patient information. ... the revised patient information >> >> >>includes the following warning: >> >> >>"People with the flu, particularly children, may be at an increased >> >> >>risk of self-injury and confusion shortly after taking TAMIFLU and >> >> >>should be closely monitored for signs of unusual behavior. A >> >> >>healthcare professional should be contacted immediately if the >> >> >>patient taking TAMIFLU shows any signs of unusual behavior." >> >> > >> >> > That was quite widely reported (on MSN eg). Mark Sircus is writing >> >> > three and a half months later. Sloppy. He should be more careful. I >> >> > wonder what else he didn't get right. >> >> > >> >> >>Donald Rumsfeld is a good example of a modern day Herod who sends >> >> >>"his" toxic chemicals out into the world (aspartame and Tamiflu) >> >> >>knowing full well people are suffering and dying in huge numbers >> >> >>because of them. >> >> > >> >> > Hm. Not if you look at the death certificates though. Yes yes I >> >> > know, >> >> > but it doesn't help to be shrill and inaccurate. >> >> > >> >> > I don't know what Mercola says about Rumsfeld in his bird flu scam >> >> > book, but apart from the Rumsfeld-Gilead connection >> >> > (see >> >> > <http://www.politicalfriendster.com/showPerson.php?id=3415&name=Avian- >> >> > FluAvian>)it's worth checking what the GRAIN reports on bird flu I >> >> > posted the other day have to say about Rumsfeld. >> >> > >> >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg69185.html >> >> > [Biofuel] Fowl play: The poultry industry's central role in the bird >> >> > flu >> >> > GRAIN: February 2006 >> >> > >> >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg69187.html >> >> > [Biofuel] The top-down global response to bird flu >> >> > GRAIN: April 2006 >> >> > >> >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg69181.html >> >> > [Biofuel] Bird flu: a bonanza for 'Big Chicken' >> >> > GRAIN: March 2007 >> >> > >> >> > Briefly, Rumsfeld was chairman of GD Searle (Nutrasweet - aspartame) >> >> > and was allegedly instrumental in getting aspartame declared safe >> >> > when it shouldn't have been. Monsanto bought Searle, Rumsfeld left >> >> > with a $12 million payoff. Ten years ago Rumsfeld became chairman of >> >> > Gilead Sciences, which developed Tamiflu and owns the Tamiflu >> >> > patent. >> >> > Rumsfeld is still the largest or one of the largest shareholders in >> >> > Gilead. Gilead sold the exclusive license for Tamiflu to Roche. The >> >> > WHO and Western governments are pushing Tamiflu as the best defence >> >> > against a possible human flu pandemic arising from bird flu, and >> >> > Rumsfeld is making millions out of it. >> >> > >> >> > Read on... >> >> > >> >> >>Of pandemics and patents >> >> >> >> >> >>The H5N1 virus was first noticed and identified when it took its >> >> >>first human victims in Hong Kong in 1997. A few years later, in >> >> >>2003, similar deaths were reported in Viet Nam and then in Thailand. >> >> >>The following year it killed people further afield in Indonesia, >> >> >>China and Cambodia. Until mid-2005, bird flu was generally seen as >> >> >>an 'Asian' problem. Then the World Health Organisation took the huge >> >> >>political decision to tell the world that we are on the verge of a >> >> >>global human pandemic that could kill 150 million people. As >> >> >>intended, the effect was dramatic. >> >> >> >> >> >>Bird flu is essentially a poultry disease. The WHO [Feb 2006] >> >> >>tallies less than 200 confirmed human cases of H5N1 and under 100 >> >> >>deaths, most of them through contact with infected chickens. The big >> >> >>worry is that H5N1 will mutate into a form that is readily >> >> >>transmitted from human to human. After all, influenza viruses >> >> >>replicate like crazy, but very sloppily, generating constant >> >> >>mutations. Once this happens, the consequences could be immediate >> >> >>and severe, as it is assumed that most people do not have antibodies >> >> >>against H5N1. >> >> >> >> >> >>The WHO pronouncement triggered, for the first time, concern about >> >> >>avian flu in the West. In no time at all, the spotlight fell on the >> >> >>Swiss drug giant, Roche. Roche has the exclusive license to produce >> >> >>Tamiflu (the trade name for oseltamivir), an anti-viral believed to >> >> >>have some effect in reducing the spread of avian flu in humans. It >> >> >>was developed and patented by Gilead Sciences, a US drug firm which >> >> >>gave Roche the exclusive right to manufacture the pill. With huge >> >> >>corporate media attention, Tamiflu -- and Roche -- suddenly became >> >> >>the answer to the potential pandemic. >> >> >> >> >> >>It is, however, not at all certain that Tamiflu would be a help, >> >> >>should a human pandemic break out. Tamiflu's effectiveness is highly >> >> >>contested, and it carries important side-effects as well. It does >> >> >>reduce the symptoms of influenza, but taken in low dosage it could >> >> >>actually exacerbate the spread of the disease through a rapid >> >> >>emergence of resistant strains and/or because sick people feel >> >> >>better and let their guard down against infecting others. The low >> >> >>dosage risk is very real. One reason is that there is a worldwide >> >> >>shortage of Tamiflu. Roche's version is produced with shikimic acid >> >> >>extracted from Chinese star anise pods, the best of which comes from >> >> >>only four provinces of southwest China. (A full 90% of their >> >> >>production is bought by Roche.) And Roche has been reticent to >> >> >>sublicence the rights to produce it. The other reason is that Roche >> >> >>recommends prophylactic use of Tamiflu for human influenza, though >> >> >>this is not effective. Numerous people taking Tamiflu in Viet Nam >> >> >>have died of H5N1 because the drug only helps if you take it within >> >> >>18 hours of infection. >> >> >> >> >> >>Making money from misery >> >> >> >> >> >>Tamiflu has, however, been a big money-spinner for its owners. The >> >> >>patent is owned by Gilead while Roche has the sole licence. Roche's >> >> >>sales of Tamiflu -- a drug that hardly sold prior to the WHO >> >> >>announcement -- went up 400% in 2005 while Gilead's royalty earnings >> >> >>from the patent grew by 166%. In the US, the drug industry is >> >> >>intimately connected with the highest levels of government. In >> >> >>November 2005, Bush announced a set of domestic measures to fight >> >> >>the possible pandemic which included an envelope of US$1.4 billion >> >> >>to go shopping for Tamiflu. This was a gift, not only for Roche and >> >> >>Gilead, but also for people like US Secretary of Defense Donald >> >> >>Rumsfeld, board member and former chairman of Gilead. He currently >> >> >>owns somewhere between US$5 million and $25 million of Gilead >> >> >>equity, making him possibly the largest shareholder. Other people >> >> >>who stand to gain from this policy are Gilead board members George >> >> >>Schultz, former US Secretary of State and Bush campaign advisor, >> >> >>Etienne Davignon, Vice-Chairman of Suez-Tractebel and Honorary >> >> >>Chairman of Bilderberg, and John W Madigan who among other things is >> >> >>on the Defense Business Board, a corporate advisory council to the >> >> >>US Department of Defense. >> >> >> >> >> >>Beyond the inevitable conspiracy theories, the bigger controversy >> >> >>came from Roche's handling of the licencing issue. The pressure to >> >> >>allow poor countries to produce or buy the generic form of >> >> >>oseltamivir has been great: some 150 generic manufacturers and >> >> >>governments have requested a sublicence. Roche, caught between a >> >> >>rock (poor public relations ratings) and a hard place (its own >> >> >>shareholders) held back, despite pressure from Gilead, from >> >> >>governments, and even from Kofi Annan, who came out of the woodwork >> >> >>to announce that he did not want a repeat of the AIDS drug crisis. >> >> >>Finally Roche decided to selectively soften up and grant a few >> >> >>limited sublicences, but the damage had been done. Once again, the >> >> >>conflict between exclusive commercial interests, which patents >> >> >>serve, and the higher social interest in public health, which >> >> >>governments are supposed to serve, was laid bare. >> >> > >> >> > -- Fowl play: The poultry industry's central role in the bird flu >> >> > crisis >> >> > GRAIN | Briefings | 2006 | >> >> > http://www.grain.org/briefings/?id=194 >> >> > >> >> >>... Such consequences for the poor [small farmers with backyard >> >> >>poultry flocks] are not what the governments or the international >> >> >>agencies commanding the global strategy to control bird flu are >> >> >>preoccupied with. By contrast, WHO, which has shown scant regard for >> >> >>the impacts of its recommended control measures on small farmers, >> >> >>has been remarkably sensitive to the interests of pharmaceutical >> >> >>corporations and the ambitions of collaborating scientists. The >> >> >>password for its database of bird flu sequence data, the most >> >> >>important in the world, is available to only 15 laboratories >> >> >>worldwide.13 This sequence data is extremely valuable in the global >> >> >>race for bird flu vaccines and diagnostics - a market that could >> >> >>prove colossal if a human pandemic breaks out. Some scientists and >> >> >>governments are now publicly challenging the WHO to make the data >> >> >>public in the interests of global health, but the WHO is dragging >> >> >>its feet, insisting that this would discourage countries and some of >> >> >>its collaborating labs from submitting data, presumably because they >> >> >>want to retain rights over the information.14 >> >> >> >> >> >>The WHO doesn't name which collaborating labs are resisting the >> >> >>publication of bird flu sequence data, but it's clear to all >> >> >>observers that the US is a major obstacle. The US Centre for Disease >> >> >>Control (CDC), one of four WHO "Collaborating Centres" on influenza >> >> >>and the nerve centre of the US government's global influenza >> >> >>surveillance programme, refuses to make most of its sequence data >> >> >>public. US health industry consultant David Webster speculates that >> >> >>the CDC is concerned that sharing data would jeopardise its vaccine >> >> >>R&D partnerships with private companies.15 >> >> >> >> >> >>The US-held sequence data comes, of course, from bird flu samples >> >> >>collected in other countries. During outbreaks of bird flu, samples >> >> >>of the virus are either sent to the WHO's collaborating labs for >> >> >>testing or directly collected by various US surveillance programmes, >> >> >>such as that handled by the Department of Defense's global network >> >> >>of Naval Medical Research Units (NAMRU).16 The NAMRU in Cairo, which >> >> >>is the WHO's Collaborating Centre for Emerging and Re-emerging >> >> >>Infectious Disease in the Middle East and Mediterranean region, has >> >> >>done extensive sequence collection in bird flu-affected countries >> >> >>such as Azerbaijan, Iraq and Egypt.17 There's also a NAMRU in >> >> >>Indonesia, which simultaneously serves as the WHO Collaborating >> >> >>Centre for Infectious Diseases in Southeast Asia.18 But after 30 >> >> >>years of cooperation, the Indonesia government told NAMRU to pack up >> >> >>by the end of 2005, when its contract was expiring. An official with >> >> >>the Foreign Ministry admitted that the Indonesian government's >> >> >>change in position was linked to the potential development of a bird >> >> >>flu vaccine that could be worth "billions" and that it would only >> >> >>consider renewing NAMRU's contract if Indonesia were afforded the >> >> >>appropriate intellectual property protection over the samples >> >> >>collected within its territory.19 >> >> >> >> >> >>However the story in Indonesia plays out, the general picture is >> >> >>that just a few major labs in the industrialised countries are >> >> >>amassing control over vital genomic information through their >> >> >>privileged position in the international bird flu effort, with the >> >> >>WHO facilitating this process. Most developing countries diligently >> >> >>follow the WHO protocol and submit their data to its collaborating >> >> >>labs, which are concentrated in a handful of countries, or welcome >> >> >>its international surveillance teams within their borders.20 The WHO >> >> >>has no authority over its collaborating laboratories and unless >> >> >>there are clear agreements of the kind Indonesia is demanding, >> >> >>there's nothing preventing these labs from cutting exclusive deals >> >> >>with pharmaceutical corporations, which could generate serious drug >> >> >>access problems for developing countries if a human-to-human >> >> >>transmissible strain of the bird flu virus emerges.21 It is not >> >> >>reassuring that the man in charge of the NAMRU network is US >> >> >>Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, a long-standing pharmaceutical >> >> >>industry insider.22 >> >> > >> >> > -- The top-down global response to bird flu >> >> > GRAIN | "Against the grain" | 2006 | >> >> > http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=12 >> >> > >> >> > More about the Indonesian case in the third GRAIN report: >> >> > >> >> > Bird flu: a bonanza for 'Big Chicken' > Privatising bird flu: the >> >> > ultimate health threat >> >> > GRAIN | "Against the grain" | 2007 | >> >> > http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=22 >> >> > >> >> > Meanwhile, as of January 2007, "Rumsfeld has left the Pentagon but >> >> > not the Defense Department". Is he still calling the shots? >> >> > Probably. >> >> > >> >> > http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/175/1/ >> >> > Rumsfeld is still running the War Department >> >> > Sunday, 28 January 2007 >> >> > By Mike Whitney >> >> > Where's Rummy? >> >> > >> >> > The WHO probably isn't exaggerating when it says 150 million people >> >> > could die in a human flu pandemic, and indeed it could arise from >> >> > HPAI H5N1 bird flu virus (the highly pathogenic form). >> >> > >> >> > But the HPAI H5N1 bird flu virus is a creation of the industrialised >> >> > factory farming system, which also spreads it, and the world >> >> > authorities and Western governments are finally being forced to >> >> > admit >> >> > it, after blaming small outdoor flocks and wild birds, killing about >> >> > 200 million healthy chickens on suspicion, and forcing millions of >> >> > small farmers to adopt the industrial model (the cause of the >> >> > problem) or die, basically. >> >> > >> >> > The industry, meanwhile, has very successfully used the crisis as an >> >> > opportunity for market consolidation (control), with the governments >> >> > doing the work for them of wiping out the remaining competition >> >> > (small farmers). >> >> > >> >> > The longer this extraordinary non-response continues, the greater by >> >> > the day the chances of a human-to-human form of HPAI H5N1 bird flu >> >> > virus emerging, exit 150 million people. >> >> > >> >> > And Rumsfeld et al see *that* impending catastrophe as an >> >> > opportunity >> >> > for market consolidation. And when it happens, Tamiflu will save us >> >> > all, hm. Including Rumsfeld I suppose. Pity about all the teenagers >> >> > it'll probably kill, but hey that's business. >> >> > >> >> > How conveniently it all rides on the back of the fear campaign that >> >> > propels the "War on Terror". >> >> > >> >> > Best >> >> > >> >> > Keith >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electroherbalism/message/9043;_ylc=X3o >> >> >>DMTJxcGM0OHZ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzgwODQzNDcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYwO >> >> >>DE0BG1zZ0lkAzkwNDMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3MjgyNDgxOA-->IM >> >> >>VA - The Slaughter of Innocence - March 1, 2007 >> >> >> >> >> >>Posted by: "Mark Sircus Ac., OMD" >> >> >>Thu Mar 1, 2007 2:53 am (PST) >> >> >> >> >> >>The Slaughter of Innocence >> >> >>International Medical Veritas Association > > <snip> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
