Hi Tom, Joe and all >Hi Tom; > >Excellent synopsis on 'how to do it right'. Although this is the >same information that is there on the journey to forever website and >probably a hundred times over here on the forum, I wish there was a >way to bold it in the archives or something. The message should >show up in red in my mailbox. > >Thanks for taking the time to put it so succinctly. > >Joe
I'll second that, very nice Tom, thankyou. I've also been wondering just how to make it show up in red. New list members quite often get told this: >Please read this: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#learn They don't always seem to take much notice though. It's been suggested several times that I should make a sort of FAQ at the list webpage at sustainablelists.org linked to major themes in the archives, but (a) I'm not going to take on the job, (b) I'm also not going to take on the job of keeping it maintained and updated, (c) I tend to think the links already there to resources at JtF should be enough, and (d) I don't think it would work anyway. I'll add your synopsis to the JtF website resources though, I think it will help a lot. In the section on Quality tests, probably with several links to it from elsewhere in the Biodiesel section. Thanks again. Best Keith >Thomas Kelly wrote: > >>Hello to All, >> >> It is my impression that a thicker than "paper thin" middle >>layer in the wash test may not indicate an incomplete reaction, but >>rather excess soap production. This may be due to high FFA content >>in the WVO oil, water in the oil, water in the caustic, or in the >>methanol. It may even be due to too much caustic. >> For these reasons, and others, beginner's should start with >>small (1L) test batches using virgin oil, the highest quality >>chemicals, & balances that allow accurate measurements. >> >> Much of the soap settles out with the glycerin, as does most >>of the caustic and excess methanol. Even after 12 or 24 hours of >>settling some of the soap, caustic and excess methanol is still in >>the biodiesel fraction. That's why we wash it. The amount that >>remains is related to the amount produced in the reaction. >> >> Using virgin oil eliminates not only the need to titrate, but >>also soap formed due to FFAs in the oil. Initial test batches with >>anything other than the "paper thin" middle layer (wash test) are >>unacceptable because it indicates either an incomplete reaction or >>excess soap. Given virgin oil, accurate measurements, and quality >>chemicals excess soap should not form. >> >> After success with small (1L) test batches using virgin oil, >>one may begin using WVO and eventually scale up to larger batches. >>This not only increases the volume of a potential disaster >>(Emulsions), but also increases the number of variables that must >>be considered when a problem arises. >> >> How do you know what is causing the problem? >> Become familiar with the methanol test (Quality Testing) >>described at JTF. >>If there was an incomplete reaction and various glycerides remain >>in the "biodiesel", they will remain undissolved in the methanol >>----> a residue at the bottom; reprocessing is in order. If the >>entire sample of BD dissolves in the methanol, but the wash test >>resulted in a thicker than "paper thin" middle layer, the problem >>is soap formation. If using virgin oil, (or low titrating WVO) and >>too much soap forms, consider the presence of water or improper >>measurement/calculations. >> >>Ex: >> During methanol recovery (from glycerin mix) one must >>consider water contamination in the distillate. Using the recovered >>methanol may result in a complete reaction with little soap (good >>methanol), complete reaction with more soap than expected (some >>water contamination), or incomplete reaction with a lot of soap >>(serious water contamination). >> The more serious problems are invariably associated with last >>liters of methanol that were distilled. I have had a >>similar experience using the last gallons of methanol from a >>barrel. As the barrel empties, water in the air condenses ----> >>more water in final gallons. >> >> The wash test and the methanol quality tests are both valuable. >> >> Towards the end of each reaction, I shut off the pump and draw >>off a sample of the mix, and then turn the pump back on. I let the >>mix settle for about 10 minutes and then do a >>solubility-in-methanol test on some of the BD fraction. If it >>passes, I pump the mix into my settling tank. If I'm making fuel >>for my car, and the BD fails the test, I'd add a bit more methoxide >>and continue processing. If I'm making fuel for my oil-fired boiler >>(larger batches; only 16% methanol vol/vol) a small residue of >>unreacted oil is acceptable. Testing this way saves the expense of >>time and resources involved in reprocessing. >> >> Prior to washing a batch I always do a wash test. If the batch >>passed the methanol test, but there is a thicker than "paper thin" >>middle layer I may let it settle longer, or put a few extra ml. of >>phosphoric acid in the first wash water. >>Having passed the methanol test, I wouldn't consider reprocessing. >> >> Tom >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >> >>From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Matt Wilson >>To: <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 2:44 PM >>Subject: [Biofuel] Re-processing troubles >> >>Hi all, >> >>Reading Shawn's post today was interesting because I was going to >>post myself about a re-processing question. >> >>I started making bio with 1 and 2 liter batches as per the >>instructions on Journey to Forever (thanks again for the great >>site!), and had moderate success, just like Shawn. I would have a >>small emulsion layer, perhaps 1/4-1/2" in the first wash. Talking >>to some local "biodieselistas" here in New Mexico, they said go >>ahead and wash it, and if by the third wash it separates quickly >>and cleanly, it's probably alright. Well, I got curious and tried >>to reprocess a batch anyway as per the directions of JtF: >> >>"If you have an emulsion any thicker than the normal "paper thin" >>interface layer between oil and water, the batch should be >>retreated. Retreat >><http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodnew>as >>with fresh oil, with the standard 3.5 g of lye per litre of oil but >>using only 100 ml methanol per litre of oil." >> >>My batch separated out a bit more glycerin, but when when I went to >>wash it, it turned into "Milk" and, to this day, has not separated. >>I didn't think much about it and kept processing small batches >>until I got one that worked fairly well. >> >>Okay, fast forward a few months: We built a 55 gal. drum processor >>and have done four batches with it. The first one came out with a >>bit of an emulsion later (more than I wanted), so I increased the >>processing time to two hours. Second batch came out much cleaner. >>Good wash, nice clear fuel when dry. The third batch I messed up >>by miscalculating the amount of lye...used 3.5g/liter (as per NaOH) >>instead of the 5.5g./liter I actually needed for our 90% KOH! As >>you can imagine, the batch came out pretty badly! We settled out >>as much bio as we could and after three washes used about 25 >>gallons of this and 15 gallons WVO in the next batch. >> >>I preheated the batch to 140 degrees (to dewater), let it settle >>for a day or two, and titrated. It titrated at 1.5, so I used >>1050g. of lye (150 liters of oil, and 30 liters of methanol), and >>reprocessed as per a batch of WVO. >> >>When I went to do a 2nd wash this morning (forgot to do a bottle >>test- doh!), it came out as tan milk. It had settled overnight. >>There was no biodiesel on the top- the whole batch looks like a >>latte! >> >>I am going to try to separate out at least some of the batch, but >>I'm afraid to try to re-process again. Meanwhile, I've got 40 gal. >>of muck I have to get rid of.... >> >>Any input would be welcome! >> >>Thanks for the time, >> >>Matt Wilson _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
