Alot of the US has a strange attraction to worshipping the almighty free market. Any sort of public or regulated business ideas.... Socialism, public health care, etc is attacked with a fervor usually reserved for religious disagreements. People might claim to believe in God, but what their rhetoric points towards is believing that the free market is infallible and incapable of doing wrong. This belief persists completely in the face of facts and reality in many cases. You might as well be trying to convert Christians to shamanism if you try to talk public health care capitalists.....
Z On Sunday, December 26, 2010, Doug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just do not understand the US system. I am an Australian, & we have a > mandated Pension system that inputs from memory 9% of a workers wages into a > Superannuation scheme (of our choosing). Most seem to use an Industry fund > (sort of Union related: has low fees & usually good returns, depending on the > market.). To my kmowledge there has been no Super Fund collapse in Australia > as yet. > > The Australian Health scheme is similar to the Canadian one. The cost to > residents is low, & you can also increase the benefits with Private insurance > if you so desire (but the basic benefits are adequate). The cost to our > Government is less than the US per-person cost, & every Australian citizen is > covered. > > If I was an American (US) citizen, I feel I would want much more for my tax $ > than is currently seen in the US system: I really cannot see where the > inefficiencies could be, & feel that a fairer system should be achievable. I > wonder why Obama is having so much difficulty changing the US medical system? > > regards Doug > > > On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:18:40 am Keith Addison wrote: >> Hello Dan, Michelle and all >> >> >Michele, >> > >> > I don't know that the Federal Government would be - on the hook - PBGC >> > >> >only insures Pensions from Private companies in this case it's the retired >> >workers who could be out. It's a lesson in the need for good financial >> >planning and not putting all of your eggs in 1 basket. This reminds me of >> >the Enron collapse. So many people had all of their retirement tied up in >> >Enron, when the company went under, so did they. >> >> So you blame the pensions themselves, instead of Enron and the >> Washington people (?) who enabled the whole scam? >> >> >Pensions should not exist. >> >> I'm not 100% in touch with all the details of this issue because >> there's simply been too much of it and I've had no reason to focus on >> it that closely. But IMHO that would be throwing out the baby with >> the bathwater. In other countries than the US, pensions not only >> exist, they also function as intended, providing millions with an >> essential resource that they depend on. Just because the whole system >> of welfare, healthcare and benefits in the US is now dysfunctional is >> no reason to damn them as worse than useless. Shouldn't you rather be >> aspiring to help restore their valuable functions instead of just >> baling out? >> >> >They are plagued with problems and seldom funded correctly. At least with >> >a 401k I can make my investment decisions and I know that what I get >> >depends on what I contribute. >> >> How many deserving people would that exclude? How many Americans have >> died (been killed?) so far because they were effectively denied >> healthcare? >> >> A Grim Record: One In Seven Americans Is On Food Stamps >> December 8, 2010 >> <http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/12/08/131905683/a-grim-record-one-in-s >> even-americans-is-on-food-stamps> >> >> No prizes for guessing what kind of "food" they eat. >> >> Best wishes >> >> Keith >> >> >Dan >> > >> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >> >Michele Stephenson >> >Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:36 AM >> >Subject: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning >> >(NYT-article) >> > >> >For those of you who live in the US an article of interest... For those >> >who live outside looking in, it's no big surprise >> > >> >Private Company and Industry pensions plans have all but gone away. The >> >substitute is the 401K that no one is really responsible for except the >> >investor to make the best choice for Self. However, for those who work >> >for local and state govt agencies this is something to watch and >> >investigate especially if you are currently receiving a pension or will >> >receive a pension in the next years to come. >> > >> >What is as important if not more important to watch is how these issues >> >will be resolved. In the article below, if the judicial system does not >> >get involved, then mediation is an option which usually results in a cut >> >in benefits. I doubt for those struggling funds one mediation is all it >> >will take. Mediation could possibly take place with every local and >> >state legislative session resulting in a cut every time. >> > >> >For those funds that do get processed in the court system it will likely >> >go to the respective State Supreme Court and ultimately the US Supreme >> >Court. If localities are legitimately declared bankrupt and no longer >> >required to pay pensions it is the federal govt's responsibility to do >> >so. In effect, we all pay for lack of managment and corruption in >> >Anywhere, USA. And once this precedent is established there will be a >> >landslide of 'toxic' pensions to be dealt with (or not). >> > >> >It is the future. If you don't think so, Iceland is bankrupt from >> >investing in bonds that were rated as "A" by unscrupulous wall street >> >fund >> >managers/business men/swindlers when they should have been rated as "Junk" >> >level. Greece is bankrupt. Ireland is bankrupt. Portugal is bankrupt. >> >Spain will possibly be bankrupt by this time next year. And the US's >> >current financial situation, if scrutinized by the IMF credit rating >> >system used on these same bankrupt countries, is on the verge of changing >> >to riskier interest rates based on our debt and GDP and other indicators >> >(just like the above countries with exception of Iceland). What do all >> >these countries have in common? They are followed the same financial >> >paradigm: loans/debt to stimulate economy. >> > >> >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40793765/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/ >> > >> >Full Text below: >> > >> > >> >PRICHARD, Ala. - This struggling small city on the outskirts of Mobile was >> >warned for years that if it did nothing, its pension fund would run out of >> >money by 2009. Right on schedule, its fund ran dry. >> > >> >Then Prichard did something that pension experts say they have never seen >> >before: it stopped sending monthly pension checks to its 150 retired >> >workers, breaking a state law requiring it to pay its promised retirement >> >benefits in full. >> > >> >Since then, Nettie Banks, 68, a retired Prichard police and fire >> >dispatcher, has filed for bankruptcy. Alfred Arnold, a 66-year-old >> >retired fire captain, has gone back to work as a shopping mall security >> >guard to try to keep his house. Eddie Ragland, 59, a retired police >> >captain, accepted help from colleagues, bake sales and collection jars >> >after he was shot by a robber, leaving him badly wounded and unable to >> >get to his new job as a police officer at the regional airport. >> > >> >Far worse was the retired fire marshal who died in June. Like many of the >> >others, he was too young to collect Social Security. >> > >> >"When they found him, he had no electricity and no running water in his >> >house," said David Anders, 58, a retired district fire chief. "He was a >> >proud enough man that he wouldn't accept help." >> > >> >The situation in Prichard is extremely unusual - the city has sought >> >bankruptcy protection twice - but it proves that the unthinkable can, in >> >fact, sometimes happen. >> > >> >And it stands as a warning to cities like Philadelphia and states like >> >Illinois, whose pension funds are under great stra> >> >_______________________________________________ >> Biofuel mailing list >> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel >> >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 >> messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
