My apologies to all, especially to John Jaser.
While mulling over a post on Methane As A Renewable,
I mistakenly posted my thoughts on methane being a "no-brainer"
on the wrong thread.
Irony, no? Me scatter-braining while being critical of
no-braining.
As to methanol as a motor fuel:
Relatively safe? Yes, relative to other motor fuels
Easily transported? Yes, in the tanks of vehicles.
There's a good deal of debate here in NY about
transport of crude oil in barges on the Hudson River,
by rail, and in tanker trucks. Methanol, while toxic to
humans,
does not pose the same environmental threat that
crude oil does. Always a concern w. transport.
Homebrewing: ???
Problem: material compatibility
Methanol, like other renewables, is probably best produced
locally. The methanol I purchase to make biodiesel costs $160-$200
(US) per 55 gal. drum. Much of the cost reflects costs associated
with transport. The barrel that cost me $200 sold for $110 in
Buffalo, NY
where it arrived by rail. I was told that it sold for $80-90 on the
Gulf
coast where it arrived by tanker. Not only is there a financial cost
associated w.
transport, but a great amount of fuel "wasted" delivering fuel.
Sorry, just a commercial for local, small-scale energy production.
Preaching to the choir.
Tom
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 17:33:57 -0500
Tom <ontheh...@fairpoint.net> wrote:
Aaah, methane is intriguing.
Biogas is a metabolic product of one of the most ancient life forms,
the methanocreatrices. Anaerobic chemoautotrophic bacteria so
different from others that many would assign them to their own
kingdom.
As to methane being easily transported consider .... where propane
and natural gas can be compressed to liquids, greatly increasing
energy density, methane "resists" liquefaction, requiring tremendous
pressure. This seems to be the "fly in the ointment". Unliquefied, a
tankful of methane doesn't go far.
Methane has value as a renewable fuel.
It is captured and used at waste treatment
plants to generate electricity. Methane is currently being captured
at landfills and used to generate electricity. I know of a dairy farm
that harvests methane from the manure the cows produce. They use the
methane to generate electricity. The heat from the generators heats
the water used to sanitize the milking area. They don't use the
methane in their cars or farm machinery however.
Relatively safe. Hmmm
Methane is a potent greenhouse gas. "Ocean burps" from vast
storehouses of methyl hydrates/clathrates have been credited with
contributing significantly to the end of the last ice age. The
release of methane from thawing peat bogs is a part of the cascade of
events that is accelerating global warming. Gasoline was once
considered a waste product of oil refining, dumped into rivers. When
it was pointed out that it could replace ethanol as fuel for internal
combustion engines the "waste" became valuable.
Imagine what might happen if methane gas presented the same
financial opportunities by its use as vehicle fuel
.... a "renewable fuel". Do we dare the oil giants to tap the vast
stores of methane currently trapped safely under the ocean? It's
already being proposed. They can do it safely, right? Have you seen
the data about leakage from pipelines compressed gases seem to find
their way out. Not so good in the case of methane.
Capturing methane at its source and using it close to where it's
produced to generate electricity seems appropriate.
Sorry to carry on, but you did say methane was intriguing.
Best,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Jaser" <j...@jaser.net>
Sent: 11/26/2014 2:50 PM
To: "sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org"
<sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel
Hi Tom:
Sorry should have added the context. Intriguing as perhaps a better
common denominator than hydrogen itself. e.g. can be easily
transported; can be made from biogas; can power a fuel cell
directly or indirectly; relatively safe
From: Tom
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:49 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
What is it about the number of hydrogens per molecule that intrigues
you?
Methane: CH4, Methanol: CH3OH both have 4 H's per molecule, as would
Methanoic Acid.
Ethane: C2H6, Ethanol: C2H5OH each have 6 H's per molecule.
Is there something about the number 4
itself, or is it the number of H's per Carbon atom?
Methane: 4:1 vs Ethane: 3:1 with a decreasing ratio as we
increase the size of the carbon chain.
Just wondering,
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Jaser" <j...@jaser.net>
Sent: 11/26/2014 12:58 PM
To: "sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org"
<sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel
Methanol is super intriguing… the amount of hydrogen per molecule.
From: Darryl McMahon
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:06 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
Jan, thanks for the quick response.
Not scaring me off. I have read something which suggests adding
methanol to gasoline has some potentially beneficial combustion
effects.
Lower energy content was known and accepted. I generally use
synthetic lubricating oils anyway - better lube properties, longer
life.
Don't know what the implications of methanol use are on synthetic
lubrication oils.
So, still curious. Not a front-burner issue for me. So 3 lines of
research at this point.
1) what are enviro pros/cons of using home-brew wood alcohol
(methanol)
as gasoline substitute - mixed fuel
2) what are the consequences for engine life, performance? Engine
will
not be optimized to methanol, but will be using a methanol-gasoline
blend. I understand the fuel computer on the 2002 Astro van will
adjust
automatically to up to 50% ethanol blend (but have found nothing so
far
regarding methanol blend). I am assuming the fuel computer is
working
on oxygen and fuel energy ratios, and won't distinguish between
ethanol
and methanol.
3) what does the home-brew operation entail? (if it is not based on
a
sustainable biomass feedstock, then I'm not interested in pursuing
it)
Many other projects have higher priority for me at this point. I'll
keep researching as time permits.
Darryl
On 26/11/2014 10:27 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote:
Darryl, methanol is already used as motor fuel in Indy Car and
Speedway.
Metanol is similar to ethanol, but more. It means that of all
properties
that ethanol has, methanol has more of them. Methanol is slightly
more
corrosive than water and has an oxygene content of 50% by weight.
The
flash point is slightly lower than for ethanol. Incomplete
combustion of
methanol generates formaldehyde and other toxic substances. It is
also
known that methanol can cause wear in excess in connection with the
motor oil , unless the oil is specially suited for methanol. Your
vehicle will consume double the amount of fuel compared to gasoline
and
cold starts will be very difficult unless you add some gasoline to
the
metanol fuel.
However, you can expect a very high fuel effiency if your motor is
fully
adapted to the methanol fuel.
That is the brief version, I also have designed a method for
purification of sulfate methanol (derived from paper pulping) but
that
technology is currently classfied due to pending patent.
I hope this information did not scar you off, but increased your
curiosity.
Best
Jan Warnqvisr
-----Ursprungligt meddelande----- From: Darryl McMahon
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 4:03 PM
To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel
In Canada, it is illegal to produce ethanol for fuel without a
federal
permit, and these are effectively never granted to a home brewer.
I have been pondering the idea of using methanol (wood alcohol) as
an
alternative to ethanol fuel, but have not taken the time to research
it.
Has somebody else already done this, and can save me the effort?
My recollection is it is possible to use methanol as a motor fuel,
which
is supported by this document.
https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/20_2_PHILADELPHIA_04-75_0059.pdf
I know that during the war years (1939 to 1945), a number of people
ran
engines on wood gas (the images of large gas bladders on vehicle
roof
racks come easily to mind).
I do have access to wood waste and fruit waste material, but working
space is at a premium. Also, the processes I see seem to be based
on
having process heat available (e.g., for pyrolysis). However, I
don't
think I need a lot - our third vehicle travels about 400 km a month,
and
I figure the methanol will only displace about 20 litres a month of
gasoline at a maximum, probably less.
I can buy methanol commercially, but in small quantities (retail),
it is
more expensive than gasoline. However, could be an option for
experimentation in the vehicle before committing to home production.
I also have not yet investigated regulatory and safety issues, but
expect the latter to be manageable.
Thoughts, experience, pointers to relevant experience or
information?
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--
Darryl McMahon
Project Manager,
Common Assessment and Referral for Enhanced Support Services
(CARESS)
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