I think we have a variation of the country mouse/city mouse perspective 
showing itself here. Many of the people on this list are firmly rooted in 
the earth, myself included. When I was a graduate student, I couldn't wait 
to get a garden plot, and the desire to grow perennial crops was a major 
driver in my choice to acquire an old farmhouse and the residual acre and a 
third of land around it. Consider, though, how few city residents choose to 
make use of available garden plots or even to use the land they have 
available around their houses. A lot of people simply do not have the 
interest in growing things themselves. That does not mean that they do not 
appreciate green spaces or nature, although many in fact do not. An awful 
lot of the people living in suburban situations are similarly disposed. 
They have grass that they mow around the house and little else. They are 
where they are simple because they could afford it and would be just as 
happy in the city. If they were in the city, their environmental impact 
would be greatly reduced, provided employment and other needs could be met 
there. That too is part of the problem, because prior to cheap energy, 
employment and services were in fact in the population centers because they 
had to be so people could walk to them. Now many city residents have to 
drive or take transit (if they are lucky) to get to employment centers in 
"industrial parks" outside of walking range of anybody. Neighborhood 
churches have been closed in favor of large churches serving a dispersed 
population. Schools have been consolidated with the same result. The local 
small grocery and dry goods stores have been displaced by large centralized 
big boxes. Our whole society has been altered by cheap energy in ways that 
now depend on that cheap energy for viability. Transitioning back to more 
energy-efficient social structures will not be easy or quick, and housing 
density is but one part of it (albeit an important one).

It would be easy to feel overwhelmed by the magnitude of the needed 
changes, but I personally am pleased and welcome the economic pressures 
pushing us toward sustainability instead of away from it as has been the 
case in a cheap energy environment for the last century.

Joel

At 08:41 AM 5/12/08 -0400, you wrote:
>Thanks for voicing the opposition so tactfully and courageously, Marlo.
>I'm afraid I won't manage quite as well...
>
>I'd be dead in a month if I lived in "high density" housing with no way
>out.  Period.  During the course of this discussion thread I actually
>tried to imagine myself attempting such a thing and I kept coming back
>to the same question:  "But what would I do with myself?"  I'd be exiled
>from everything I understand, everything I rely on to give my life
>meaning.  As a person who grew up in a dairy and apple farm community, I
>simply wouldn't know what to do with my days.  Living through the
>transitions of a post peak oil/climate disrupted/economically
>impoverished world seems much more palatable on my 80 acres located 5
>miles from the Commons - which is why I'm here.  It's still
>walking/biking distance from the city and my family will be able to
>raise most of its own food and network with others choosing to do the
>same in our low density sprawlish community.
>
>Talking this prospect over with my kids and husband at dinner visions of
>sci-fi nightmares centered on people living cooped up in efficient
>living circled round the table. Perhaps as George Franz suggests we are
>all afflicted by American real estate brainwashing or an unjustified
>earth-killing dose of American Individualism.  Whatever.  Personally, I
>think attacking people where they live is a poor opening for a
>discussion about the future.  Giving people a reason/positive motivators
>to reconstruct their lives that are tied to their well-being in terms of
>better services, jobs, opportunities to work collectively (like
>community gardens & kitchens) and security makes more sense.  In some
>important ways I have over the past 12 years seen this taking shape in
>the City of Ithaca, but, of course, it is often derided as
>"gentrification" and salvaging homes downtown still carries the stigma
>of "single-family dwelling" with the proponents of shared walls.
>
>Acknowledging that the high density vision is not for everyone, nor is
>it practical (Who's going to grow the food or supply the wood for the
>high density crowd?) and that it is dependent on large systems running
>responsibly would go a long way toward opening up this discussion.  It
>could be argued that it's easier to reduce your footprint and contribute
>to the well-being of your local community in a rural location, because
>you and your neighbors have more control over your circumstances.  In
>any case, not everyone's spirit is attuned to becoming bike-riding
>vegans living in 4 story housing or, conversely, living in the isolation
>of a rural community growing rutabagas with your extended family on the
>back acreage, however much "sense" either reality makes.  Perhaps it is
>the limitations of my 20th century upbringing coming to the fore, but I
>still hold diversity as a key to our collective success when planning
>for the future and am nervous about one-size-fits-all solutions
>requiring "If only people would..." as a starting point.
>
>-- Katie Quinn-Jacobs
>
>
>
>Simon St.Laurent wrote:
> > marlo capoccia wrote:
> >
> >> i'm being contrary about this probably because i just can't imagine
> >> having limited access to rural living.  aren't there tons of people
> >> like me who would feel terribly penned-in not being able to wake up
> >> in the middle of the night and walk in a field all alone with the
> >> moon?  is that a figment of our imaginations or lack of experience?
> >>
> >
> > Even George's world will, I expect, need farmers and the villages and
> > hamlets that support them.
> >
> > Unless, of course, I've missed something.  (And of course, that's fewer
> > people than currently live outside the city.)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Simon St.Laurent
> > http://livingindryden.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, 
> please visit:  http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/
> >
> > RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
> > [email protected]
> > http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
> > free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>_______________________________________________
>For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, 
>please visit:  http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/
>
>RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
>[email protected]
>http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
>free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
_______________________________________________
For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please 
visit:  http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ 

RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
[email protected]
http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org

Reply via email to