.--- Original Message ----- *From:* D & T
Lessware<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:29 PM
*Subject:* Re: [SustainableTompkins] Prius/electric Cars Could Be Polluters
SMALL CARS
I write as a Chartered professional transport consultant who has specialised
in Minimization in Engineering Science for 50 years . All the usual
university qualifications thank you and a five year engineering
apprenticeship before I was let loose in high tech Aviation .
*1 ATTITUDE* The quest as suggested by Tony Del Plato for converting
the masses to public transport is in my view a pipe dream -- humanity has
learned to enjoy the independance of their powered private transport over
three or four generations and it will take more than a four fold increase
in fuel prices and several generations of hard education before one will
dissuade the majority away from their Love Affair with their Car .
* 2* *EDUCATION * Public transport , greater use of bikes , rickshaws ,
scooters ???"-- great great great -- but dislodge the over riding fondness
with the private car ?-- no way . Get them to downsize their car -- big
challenge no doubt , hard work , big marketing , lots of cooercion but ,
with the right financial incentives, a very very big worldwide potential
*3* *THE BASIC APPLIED SCIENCE IS USUALLY IGNORED *.
.BE SERIOUS Mass is the single biggest factor of all ,over riding all
others , whether for combatting pollution, fuel consumption wastage , raw
material wastage, production costs , recycling costs , new vehicle
retail cost, road space , parking space in cities , road maintenance
The World currently drives nearly 1 billion tonnes of steel and
plastic around the globe every day --- what a criminal waste . Their carbon
burn is a massive ONE FIFTH of all carbon burn worldwide , equivalent to
all industry , greater than farming and commerce . That ain't sustainable .
Only 0.3 % of our Carbon Burn fuel pushes us drivers around , I
hear , -- the rest goes up in smoke for our Mechanically and Structurally
Obesity sick Monsters called Cars
The Prius is a very commendable but far too modest start .Its
puchase price would cost me two or three years pension -- useless for those
hardest hit by spiralling fuel costs . It is NOT SUTAINABLE to reduce fuel
costs for cars which only those on high salaries can afford
My NEW vehicle will save at least most of current fuel cost and
has a target retail price which even those like me on a State Pension could
buy . It will be lighter than the Indian Tata Nano .
Derek Lessware
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [SustainableTompkins] Prius/electric Cars Could Be Polluters
To: Sustainable Tompkins County listserv <
[email protected]>
While it is defintely true that the mass of the vehicle contributes
greatly to the amount of energy required to move it, I sure hope the
statement "you will never get people out of their cars" is not true. If it
is, even smaller cars will not solve the problem. There is a large amount
of embodied energy in the production, distribution, maintenance, repair,
and disposal of vehicles. If we just replace them with smaller ones that
burn less gas, that will improve the efficiency some and reduce
consumption (although one can make a strong argument that efficiency does
not in fact lead to demand destruction, it just expands the population of
the demand), but it will not solve the problem. We need to provide
alternative transportation, convince people to walk more, and stop
producing so many cars.
> What is needed is very small cars with little mass, as the first cars
> were.
> Small cars use a fraction of the fuel required by even a Prius. It is
> car
> size and mass that determines the amount of fuel, and until you cut the
> mass
> significantly, you will still get a polluting vehicle. You will never get
> people out of their cars but you can cut the size of them and get very
> significant fuel savings, just as the first Model T did.
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Tony Del Plato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> I was taken aback by the this thought and wondered if anyone on the TC
>> Sustainability list has a take on whether a Prius, if plugged in to
>> re-charge its battery, could indirectly pollute more than and is less
>> efficient than a gasoline fueled car. The article below sounds
>> compelling
>> in
>> light of the coal industry trying to get into the transportation market.
>> Tony Del Plato
>>
>> http://www.betterworldclub.com/articles/DC_Case_Against_Electric_Car.htm
>>
>> --
>>
>> "Justice is what love looks like in public."
>> ~ Dr. Cornel West
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> "Justice is what love looks like in public."
>> ~ Dr. Cornel West
>> _______________________________________________
>> For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area,
>> please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/
>>
>> RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
>> [email protected]
>> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
>> free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area,
> please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/
>
> RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
> [email protected]
> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
> free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
>
_______________________________________________
For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area,
please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/
RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
[email protected]
http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
_______________________________________________
For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please
visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/
RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for:
[email protected]
http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins
free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
