It's been ages since I seen or read such an example of Euro-American ethnocentrism as blatant as Mr. Lessware's comment "...humanity has learned to enjoy the independance of their powered private transport over three or four generations." Humanity? Somewhere in the range of 600-700 million people in First and Second World consumption-based economies live in a culture dominated by the automobile.. The other 85-90 percent of the world's 6 billion residents manage fairly well with a variety of other forms of non-private, non-automobile transportation. The rest of the world does not share Americans' bizarre love affair with the automobile. Americans also still only represent about 5 percent of the world's population, hardly what one would call a majority. Let's keep the blame for the problem where it belongs. George Frantz
On 7/22/08, Donna Mummery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > .--- Original Message ----- *From:* D & T > Lessware<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:29 PM > *Subject:* Re: [SustainableTompkins] Prius/electric Cars Could Be Polluters > > SMALL CARS > > I write as a Chartered professional transport consultant who has > specialised > in Minimization in Engineering Science for 50 years . All the usual > university qualifications thank you and a five year engineering > apprenticeship before I was let loose in high tech Aviation . > > *1 ATTITUDE* The quest as suggested by Tony Del Plato for converting > the masses to public transport is in my view a pipe dream -- humanity has > learned to enjoy the independance of their powered private transport over > three or four generations and it will take more than a four fold increase > in fuel prices and several generations of hard education before one will > dissuade the majority away from their Love Affair with their Car . > > * 2* *EDUCATION * Public transport , greater use of bikes , rickshaws , > scooters ???"-- great great great -- but dislodge the over riding fondness > with the private car ?-- no way . Get them to downsize their car -- big > challenge no doubt , hard work , big marketing , lots of cooercion but , > with the right financial incentives, a very very big worldwide potential > > *3* *THE BASIC APPLIED SCIENCE IS USUALLY IGNORED *. > > .BE SERIOUS Mass is the single biggest factor of all ,over riding all > others , whether for combatting pollution, fuel consumption wastage , raw > material wastage, production costs , recycling costs , new vehicle > retail cost, road space , parking space in cities , road maintenance > The World currently drives nearly 1 billion tonnes of steel and > plastic around the globe every day --- what a criminal waste . > Their carbon > burn is a massive ONE FIFTH of all carbon burn worldwide , equivalent to > all industry , greater than farming and commerce . That ain't sustainable . > Only 0.3 % of our Carbon Burn fuel pushes us drivers around , I > hear , -- the rest goes up in smoke for our Mechanically and Structurally > Obesity sick Monsters called Cars > The Prius is a very commendable but far too modest start .Its > puchase price would cost me two or three years pension -- useless for those > hardest hit by spiralling fuel costs . It is NOT SUTAINABLE to reduce fuel > costs for cars which only those on high salaries can afford > My NEW vehicle will save at least most of current fuel cost and > has a target retail price which even those like me on a State Pension > could > buy . It will be lighter than the Indian Tata Nano . > > Derek Lessware > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:21 PM > Subject: Re: [SustainableTompkins] Prius/electric Cars Could Be Polluters > To: Sustainable Tompkins County listserv < > [email protected]> > > > While it is defintely true that the mass of the vehicle contributes > greatly to the amount of energy required to move it, I sure hope the > statement "you will never get people out of their cars" is not true. If it > is, even smaller cars will not solve the problem. There is a large amount > of embodied energy in the production, distribution, maintenance, repair, > and disposal of vehicles. If we just replace them with smaller ones that > burn less gas, that will improve the efficiency some and reduce > consumption (although one can make a strong argument that efficiency does > not in fact lead to demand destruction, it just expands the population of > the demand), but it will not solve the problem. We need to provide > alternative transportation, convince people to walk more, and stop > producing so many cars. > > > What is needed is very small cars with little mass, as the first cars > > were. > > Small cars use a fraction of the fuel required by even a Prius. It is > > car > > size and mass that determines the amount of fuel, and until you cut the > > mass > > significantly, you will still get a polluting vehicle. You will never > get > > people out of their cars but you can cut the size of them and get very > > significant fuel savings, just as the first Model T did. > > > > On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 5:33 AM, Tony Del Plato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > >> I was taken aback by the this thought and wondered if anyone on the TC > >> Sustainability list has a take on whether a Prius, if plugged in to > >> re-charge its battery, could indirectly pollute more than and is less > >> efficient than a gasoline fueled car. The article below sounds > >> compelling > >> in > >> light of the coal industry trying to get into the transportation market. > >> Tony Del Plato > >> > >> > http://www.betterworldclub.com/articles/DC_Case_Against_Electric_Car.htm > >> > >> -- > >> > >> "Justice is what love looks like in public." > >> ~ Dr. Cornel West > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> "Justice is what love looks like in public." > >> ~ Dr. Cornel West > >> _______________________________________________ > >> For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, > >> please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ > >> > >> RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins > >> free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, > > please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ > > > > RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: > > [email protected] > > http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins > > free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, > please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ > > RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: > [email protected] > http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins > free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org > _______________________________________________ > For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, > please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ > > RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: > [email protected] > http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins > free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org > -- "Justice is what love looks like in public." ~ Dr. Cornel West _______________________________________________ For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: [email protected] http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org _______________________________________________ For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: [email protected] http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
