> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Zalaba, Mike > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:52 PM > > >English (translatet by http://babelfish.altavista.com)
i will answer to the german text, because the babelfish translation is more than a joke. don't you speek english as well? if you need the german translation of my mail pass it to babelfish or contact me offlist ;-) > Auch wir von Econophone wurden schon von Bluewin gesperrt und sind immer > noch bei Cabelcom gesperrt, weil jemand (Hegi/F�rst ?) �ber unseren > Internet-Dialup-Zugang "unerw�nschte Werbemail (SPAM)" verschickt hat. what i've seen in the last cases that f�rst sent a lot of spam via econophone ip blocks. a lot of people sent a lot of abuse messages to you (also I did) and we haven't got any answer. because of econophone seemed not to react on those abuse messages and f�rst did continued with his massive spammings some ISP's put econophone on their blacklist - this is understandable, or not? > Wir halten solche Massnahmen f�r �usserst zweifelhaft, werden doch so > tausende von "Normalen Mailern" - Private wie auch Gesch�fte - im > Emailverkehr behindert, nur damit mit notabene untauglichen > Mitteln ein SPAM NICHT zu verhindern. well, false positives are a big problem of any mail filter system. indeed, there's no out-of-the-box solution aginst spam. but i think that an ISP should do the best he can do against in this spam-war. but more on that later... > Auch wir haben uns gegen�ber von aktiven Anti-SPAM-Organisationen wie > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" oder "SIUG" commitet, gegen SPAMer > vorzugehen. well siug is at least a non-technical group. many swinog members are not subscribed to siug. anyway, i'm subscribed to siug but i've not seen any commitment from econophone to the siug mailinglist. you can check out the archive and point me to the statement if you'll find it: https://your.trash.net/pipermail/siug-discuss/ what does econophone does against spammers? > Es bleibt abermals nachzumerken, dass es (noch) KEINE gesetzliche > Verpflichtung f�r Provider gibt, SPAM zu verhindern. Dank einem Passus in > unseren AGB k�nnen wir aber mit geeigneten Mitteln, n�mlich mit > dem Sperren > von Einwahlnummern �ber welche ein SPAM verschickt wurde, entgegenwirken. well, praise your AGB. i think there will never bee a law that tells us ISP's to prevent any spams. it could be a law that forbids the spammer to spam, but this will come in the next decade in our country. but most of the spams relays from outside switzerland, even outside europe. do they change their laws? does they care about swiss law? dont think so... i looked in your AGB and saw: �Es ist dem Kunden untersagt, Massensendung und Kettenbrief (Spams, unsolicited mails, mail bombs etc.) egal mit welchem Inhalt per E-mail zu versenden. Davon ausgenommen sind Massensendungen, die EconoPhone gegen�ber vorangek�ndigt und begr�ndet werden. EconoPhone beh�lt sich das Recht vor, bei Spam-Verdacht die entsprechenden Mailings nicht auszuf�hren.� so, why econophone didn't reacted? normally you get an (late) abuse message within the first 1-2 hours of sending spam. i have seen f�rst staying online for HOURS sending his trash. > Das Sperren vom ganzen IP-Ranges f�r Mailverkehr halte ich > dagegen f�r total > untauglich. Ich zweifle sogar daran, dass solche Massnahmen rechtes sind. > Auf jeden Fall stehen sie in einem krassen Gegensatz zum Gedanken des > "freien Internet", weil so etliche "unschuldige Internet-User" gestraft > werden. Und dies eventuell gleich mehrfach - einmal durch ein eventuell > erhaltenes SPAM, dann durch die Blockade des sendens, wobei die > meisten User > aufgrund der Fehlermeldung nicht einmal den Grund kennen und dann auf eine > meist kostenpflichtige Hotline anrufen m�ssen. well, IP based accesslists are such a thing you know. AFAIK thers no law that can order us to allow every connection to our mailserver from anyone. for my position i think that the ISP should do his best fighting against spam. if an other ISP doesn't react on abuse messages you're allowed to (temporarely) disallow mail from his IP ranges. call it collateral damage. sure, it's against the thought of the 'free internet'. but the internet isn't free since years (e.g. see B�PF, tracking solutions, etc.). but keep the net as free as possible and dont allow some black sheeps to use any holes within this freedom doing illegal or abusing operations. remember, the ISP is something like the 'shepherd' of his customers. greetz steven ---------------------------------------------- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maillist-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/swinog%40swinog.ch/
