Hi Fabien, You say that I write nonsense and stupid e-mails? Well, seems that you did not understand me. So, I'll be here a little more detailed and specific:
First: No offense Fabien, this is a well-meaning criticism. I know that you invested so much effort into Symfony. However, you are a little exaggerated forcing object model and object-oriented programming where it is necessary - and where it is not (as is the case with WEB Forms), in the language which already has a very bad and sloppy object model. So you complicate some tasks in the Symfony framework that already was simple and good. Second: Almost 90% of the code that generates the Symfony framework developer need to modify or re-write, because the generated code "does not follow best practice" (per your words) in programming. What is the point and what the benefits of the code generated if 90% of the code must be re-written on the completely different way? Third: The result of all this is a complex directory structure, many empty classes that only contain a skeleton and just inherits one of the base classes, and finally the CRUD code that always must be re-written. And to get all that, the programmer must learn a bunch of different configuration and command line options. And when a programmer, after a painstaking setup and configuration of various options and parameters, finally gets the generated code, he must re-write 90% of the generated code. WBR, Ghost3D On Sep 23, 9:19 am, Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony- project.com> wrote: > Ok, I think we get the point. No need to be rude. Please, go away, use > whatever framework you want, and stop writing nonsense emails. > > Thanks, > Fabien > > -- > Fabien Potencier > Sensio CEO - symfony lead developer > sensiolabs.com | symfony-project.org | fabien.potencier.org > Tél: +33 1 40 99 80 80 > > bghost wrote: > > As I said at the beginning: > > > Symfony has become too complicated. Also, Symfony folder structure > > has become too complicated. Definitely, the learning of principles on > > which Symfony working is painful and unprofitable. If you really want > > to > > see, which means fast, easy and effective PHP framework, then take a > > look on the following link: > > >http://www.yiiframework.com/ > > > WBR, > > Ghost3D > > > On Sep 21, 3:31 pm, Sid Bachtiar <sid.bacht...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> XD > > >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:28 AM, dziobacz <aaabbbcccda...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> I would like to say that Symfony is very, very good and future > >>> framework. Thx Symfony I could learn very fast ASP.NET MVC (not > >>> ASP.NET but ASP.NET MVC) - these two frameworks have got many similar > >>> things. > >>> While Zend Framework is far, far away Symfony and ASP.NET MVS. In Zend > >>> you must almost everything creat by yourself !! For example you must > >>> modify Bootstrap file and write there strange code to enable > >>> layout !!! Symfony is the best !! :) > >>> On 21 Wrz, 10:58, CaffeineInc <simon....@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> I think symfony is brilliant, If you need a framework which can scale > >>>> to enterprise level websites with fast prototyping and a flexible ORM, > >>>> then you don't need anything else. If you think it's complicated, then > >>>> maybe you're in the wrong place. > >>>> If you want to build a small website with everything pre-configured, > >>>> I'd probably stick with something like SilverStripe. > >>>> P.s slagging off the framework in 2-3 lines is not very constructive > >>>> for the users forum. > >>>> On Sep 18, 6:09 pm, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> No, the crux of what I wanted to say is: > >>>>> Users should not spend more time to learn how some Web Framework > >>>>> works but they need to learn a programming language. Any framework > >>>>> should be only an auxiliary tool, not an entire small science. > >>>>> So, simplicity and speed should be paramount. > >>>>> WBR, > >>>>> Ghost3D > >>>>> On Sep 18, 5:30 pm, Sid Ferreira <sid....@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> The most easy thing to understand is something that doesn't need > >>>>>> documentation and I believe that THIS is the point that BGhost is > >>>>>> talking > >>>>>> about."I don't want launch a rocket in 30 days, I want my gallery > >>>>>> ready in > >>>>>> 12 minutes..." > >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:26, Thomas Rabaix > >>>>>> <thomas.rab...@gmail.com>wrote: > >>>>>>> Symfony has many components, each of them are : > >>>>>>> - easy to understand > >>>>>>> - easy to configure > >>>>>>> - very well documented > >>>>>>> Now, the only thing complicated is to know how all these components > >>>>>>> play > >>>>>>> together. This is the tricky part, but symfony default configuration > >>>>>>> will be > >>>>>>> fine for many projects. > >>>>>>> You just need to go further ... if you have already create/try to > >>>>>>> implement > >>>>>>> a framework, you will see that symfony has all STABLE the pieces you > >>>>>>> need. > >>>>>>> Try to use an IDE : netbeans or eclipse, these two IDE are great to > >>>>>>> navigate > >>>>>>> across the code and understand it. > >>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:04 PM, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hi Fabien, > >>>>>>>> - With the introduction of the Doctrine ORM, number of parameters > >>>>>>>> and configuration options are increased manifold. Therefore, the > >>>>>>>> developer > >>>>>>>> must first learn all about the Doctrine ORM. Is that good? Doctrine > >>>>>>>> ORM > >>>>>>>> already providing a fairly good possibilities and options without > >>>>>>>> Symfony. > >>>>>>>> - Symfony WEB forms are a bit too complicated and their relations > >>>>>>>> with the rest of a Symfony application is often unclear. > >>>>>>>> WBR, > >>>>>>>> Ghost3D > >>>>>>>> On Sep 18, 4:43 pm, Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony- > >>>>>>>> project.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> You say that symfony became too complicated, which implies it was > >>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>> before. > >>>>>>>>> Can you give us some examples of what became more complicated? That > >>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>> help us improve the framework. > >>>>>>>>> For instance, we have less and less configuration files. Since 1.0, > >>>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>> removed a lot of them, and removed some parameters also. > >>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>> Fabien > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Fabien Potencier > >>>>>>>>> Sensio CEO - symfony lead developer > >>>>>>>>> sensiolabs.com | symfony-project.org | fabien.potencier.org > >>>>>>>>> Tél: +33 1 40 99 80 80 > >>>>>>>>> bghost wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> First, I would like to say that Symfony framework is not too bad, > >>>>>>>>>> because I follow its development from the first version. But I > >>>>>>>>>> think > >>>>>>>>>> it became too complicated because it is evident exaggeration > >>>>>>>>>> with the introduction of countless parameters and configuration > >>>>>>>>>> files in order to automate all possible tasks. This entails that > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> programmer spends more time dealing with the Symfony framework > >>>>>>>>>> than with the real problem. > >>>>>>>>>> P.S. I did nothing special but just followed the Jobeet tutorial. > >>>>>>>>>> WBR, > >>>>>>>>>> Ghost3D > >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 18, 4:24 pm, Sid Bachtiar <sid.bacht...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> It is necessary to invest so much effort to do a relatively > >>>>>>>>>>>> simple > >>>>>>>>>>>> application. > >>>>>>>>>>> If you're just learning Symfony, then yes of course you'll find it > >>>>>>>> too > >>>>>>>>>>> much effort. This is true with any other framework/technology. > >>>>>>>>>>> But for those of us who have invested our time in Symfony, we find > >>>>>>>>>>> great leverage in using Symfony. > >>>>>>>>>>> So what is the relatively simple application you're trying to > >>>>>>>>>>> build? > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2009 at 1:58 AM, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> It is necessary to invest so much effort to do a relatively > >>>>>>>>>>>> simple > >>>>>>>>>>>> application. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Productivity and profitability of such work is very questionable. > >>>>>>>>>>>> So, Symfony - Goodbye > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> Blue Horn Ltd - System Developmenthttp://bluehorn.co.nz > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Thomas Rabaix > >>>>>>>http://rabaix.net > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Sidney G B Ferreira > >>>>>> Desenvolvedor Web > >> -- > >> Blue Horn Ltd - System Developmenthttp://bluehorn.co.nz --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "symfony users" group. 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