Yeah never really got the time to look into creating plugins Just used
a few.. Will look into it... Thanks
Any how symfony is doing a great... N it a piece of work well done!
Thanks to the team building it.
--
Kind regards
Farrukh Abbas
On 24 Sep 2009, at 03:48, zeek <z...@thesecondroad.org> wrote:
>
> Farrukh,
>
> The kind of re-use that you are talking about, from one project to the
> next, should be done with a plugin. It is the plugins that allow you
> to "putting the schema model n peer classes in one folder so all
> one would need is to copy the folder n customize it ."
>
>
> On Sep 23, 9:51 am, Farrukh Abbas <strategy.vs.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It has become a long thread ... As some one said before that
>> noframework is perfect... But I guess what matters is how well does a
>> framework hide all the complexitites of creating scalable web apps n
>> let's the developer focus on the solution n business logic
>> suberbly ... Yes it does take time to learn how to do it the "right"
>> way according to the rules the framework has put forth but if one
>> sticks to one version I guess there won't be that much of
>> learning ...
>> Any how I would like to share my 50 cents of experience with
>> symfony n
>> what I would like it to have...
>>
>> I have developed 3 to 4 apps on symfony n one thing I find my self
>> doing is use some module developed for on app into another which
>> ofcourse is possible but what do u guys think about putting the
>> schema
>> model n peer classes in one folder so all one would need is to copy
>> the folder n customize it ... It's just n idea... So would like to
>> know the drawebacks n strenghts of doing so... For that to be
>> possible
>> the model has to be stand alone... Feel free to critizie
>> constructively
>>
>> --
>> Kind regards
>> Farrukh Abbas
>>
>> On 23 Sep 2009, at 15:37, Alexandru-Emil Lupu <gang.al...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ghost3D,
>>> Sincerely, i thought that symfony is hard as well in the begining,
>>> but, there are some things that i haven't saw in other php
>>> frameworks, like the admin generator or the crud. Maybe, just
>>> because in the last period i am using just Django and Symfony in my
>>> projects.
>>> If you think that the symfony does not follow the best practices,
>>> then you are free to share with us what are the problems that you
>>> found on the system (allready done that). Instead of criticize so
>>> much the framework itself, you might come with some improvements of
>>> the generated code that "follows the best practices".
>>
>>> Yeah ... i know that sometimes the symfony generated does not do
>>> what i want to do, so i am starting to extend it. For example, on
>>> some objects i am hydrating manually the foreign objects, something
>>> like ROR way...
>>> $user = MyUser::find($criteria, array
>>> ('ban_status','profile','last_login')) and so on ...
>>
>>> AFAIK, not even a framework is able to read the developer's mind.
>>> Some of them have made compromises renouncing to complexity for the
>>> simplicity sake, other are maybe far too complex than they should.
>>
>>> i propose you something... make a blog application (no plugins
>>> allowed) using symfony, yii, code igniter, cake PHP and tell us what
>>> were your work time for each one of the implementation. The
>>> applications should have: i18n support, form validation, comment
>>> management, and also an admin interface for the posts, a tagging
>>> system, and tests.
>>> After that add 2 majour database modifications and see what is the
>>> framework that helps you the most in this case.
>>
>>> Of course. The logic is not to learn all the framewors, but to see
>>> the development time for each one of it. Afterall we all work with
>>> tight deadlines for our customers.
>>> As someone said earlier: if you need to modify 90% of the generated
>>> code, either you don't do it right, either symfony is not for you.
>>
>>> Alecs
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Phil Moorhouse
>>> <moorhouse.p...@googlemail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ghost3D,
>>
>>> Firstly, the reason for the move to OO forms has already been
>>> covered
>>> - it's to promote re-use and greater flexibility. This unavoidably
>>> comes with the cost of increased complexity, and I think from the
>>> answers above most people here are willing to make that trade-off.
>>
>>> Secondly, Symfony is not meant to be an application generator in the
>>> way that Drupal or Joomla will build most of your app for you.
>>> It's a
>>> foundation and structure for you to build your app on top of. The
>>> admin generator can quickly give you a simple back-end and in some
>>> cases people have bent and shaped it to make entire sites, but there
>>> is no explicit claim that you can wave a magic wand and Symfony will
>>> write your entire codebase. If you want that then Symfony is not for
>>> you.
>>
>>> Thirdly, the directory structure is not complex - it follows a
>>> convention that is well named and repeated throughout the framework,
>>> which makes naming decisions and finding old code easy. The empty
>>> classes are there so that you can extend the base classes without
>>> changing them, which means you can update your Symfony version or
>>> rebuild your model without fear of overwriting your own custom code.
>>> The CRUD is a quickly producible (and completely optional) starting
>>> point for you to modify, and that's all it's meant to be. The
>>> configuration has well chosen defaults from the start - the only
>>> thing
>>> you need to provide to get an app up and running are your database
>>> connection details, so it's hardly "painstaking".
>>
>>> You seem to be of the impression all frameworks should fulfil the
>>> same
>>> needs and take the same approach. If you have a preferred approach,
>>> then use a framework that implements it, there is no point in
>>> arguing
>>> that Symfony does things the wrong way.
>>
>>> Phil
>>
>>> lazymanc on #symfony / #symfony-off
>>
>>> On Sep 23, 12:29 pm, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Fabien,
>>
>>>> You say that I write nonsense and stupid e-mails? Well, seems that
>>>> you did not understand me. So, I'll be here a little more detailed
>>> and
>>>> specific:
>>
>>>> First:
>>
>>>> No offense Fabien, this is a well-meaning criticism. I know that
>>>> you
>>>> invested so much effort into Symfony. However, you are a little
>>>> exaggerated forcing object model and object-oriented programming
>>>> where it is necessary - and where it is not (as is the case with
>>> WEB
>>>> Forms), in the language which already has a very bad and sloppy
>>>> object model. So you complicate some tasks in the Symfony
>>>> framework that already was simple and good.
>>
>>>> Second:
>>
>>>> Almost 90% of the code that generates the Symfony framework
>>>> developer need to modify or re-write, because the generated
>>>> code "does not follow best practice" (per your words) in
>>> programming.
>>>> What is the point and what the benefits of the code generated if
>>>> 90%
>>>> of the code must be re-written on the completely different way?
>>
>>>> Third:
>>
>>>> The result of all this is a complex directory structure, many empty
>>>> classes that only contain a skeleton and just inherits one of the
>>> base
>>>> classes, and finally the CRUD code that always must be re-written.
>>>> And to get all that, the programmer must learn a bunch of different
>>>> configuration and command line options.
>>>> And when a programmer, after a painstaking setup and configuration
>>>> of various options and parameters, finally gets the generated code,
>>>> he must re-write 90% of the generated code.
>>
>>>> WBR,
>>>> Ghost3D
>>
>>>> On Sep 23, 9:19 am, Fabien Potencier <fabien.potenc...@symfony-
>>
>>>> project.com> wrote:
>>>>> Ok, I think we get the point. No need to be rude. Please, go
>>> away, use
>>>>> whatever framework you want, and stop writing nonsense emails.
>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Fabien
>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Fabien Potencier
>>>>> Sensio CEO - symfony lead developer
>>>>> sensiolabs.com | symfony-project.org | fabien.potencier.org
>>>>> Tél: +33 1 40 99 80 80
>>
>>>>> bghost wrote:
>>>>>> As I said at the beginning:
>>
>>>>>> Symfony has become too complicated. Also, Symfony folder
>>> structure
>>>>>> has become too complicated. Definitely, the learning of
>>> principles on
>>>>>> which Symfony working is painful and unprofitable. If you
>>> really want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> see, which means fast, easy and effective PHP framework, then
>>> take a
>>>>>> look on the following link:
>>
>>>>>> http://www.yiiframework.com/
>>
>>>>>> WBR,
>>>>>> Ghost3D
>>
>>>>>> On Sep 21, 3:31 pm, Sid Bachtiar <sid.bacht...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> XD
>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:28 AM, dziobacz
>>> <aaabbbcccda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> I would like to say that Symfony is very, very good and future
>>>>>>>> framework. Thx Symfony I could learn very fast ASP.NET MVC
>>> (not
>>>>>>>> ASP.NET but ASP.NET MVC) - these two frameworks have got
>>> many similar
>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>> While Zend Framework is far, far away Symfony and ASP.NET
>>> MVS. In Zend
>>>>>>>> you must almost everything creat by yourself !! For example
>>> you must
>>>>>>>> modify Bootstrap file and write there strange code to enable
>>>>>>>> layout !!! Symfony is the best !! :)
>>>>>>>> On 21 Wrz, 10:58, CaffeineInc <simon....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I think symfony is brilliant, If you need a framework which
>>> can scale
>>>>>>>>> to enterprise level websites with fast prototyping and a
>>> flexible ORM,
>>>>>>>>> then you don't need anything else. If you think it's
>>> complicated, then
>>>>>>>>> maybe you're in the wrong place.
>>>>>>>>> If you want to build a small website with everything pre-
>>> configured,
>>>>>>>>> I'd probably stick with something like SilverStripe.
>>>>>>>>> P.s slagging off the framework in 2-3 lines is not very
>>> constructive
>>>>>>>>> for the users forum.
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 18, 6:09 pm, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> No, the crux of what I wanted to say is:
>>>>>>>>>> Users should not spend more time to learn how some Web
>>> Framework
>>>>>>>>>> works but they need to learn a programming language. Any
>>> framework
>>>>>>>>>> should be only an auxiliary tool, not an entire small
>>> science.
>>>>>>>>>> So, simplicity and speed should be paramount.
>>>>>>>>>> WBR,
>>>>>>>>>> Ghost3D
>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 18, 5:30 pm, Sid Ferreira <sid....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> The most easy thing to understand is something that
>>> doesn't need
>>>>>>>>>>> documentation and I
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »
> >
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