On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.br...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Aaron Meurer <asmeu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Matthew Brett <matthew.br...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 7:16 PM, Aaron Meurer <asmeu...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> <snip> >>>>> Have the authors of conda gone on the distutils mailing lists to >>>>> advocate conda as a solution to the distutils problem? >>>> >>>> A lot of conda is built around the frustration of the bad design >>>> decisions of distutils plus the inability for the community to really >>>> understand the needs of the scientific community, so conda works more >>>> or less around distutils (the build stage works on top of distutils, >>>> if you want, but the install stage works independent of it). >>>> >>>> To answer your question, I'm not sure what direct advocation has been >>>> done, but the core packaging guys are definitely aware of conda. >>> >>> Yes, that was my impression. >>> >>>>>> In fact, a lot of people are starting to use conda (either using >>>>>> Anaconda or separate from it), because it really solves these problems >>>>>> (this includes people at Berkeley). >>>>> >>>>> I may not be talking to those people for some reason :) >>>>> >>>>>> The great thing about Anaconda (the distribution) is that it comes >>>>>> with things that really enhance the SymPy experience, like the IPython >>>>>> notebook, matplotlib, the IPython qtconsole (which is a serious pain >>>>>> to install from source even on Mac OS X), numpy, scipy, and so on. We >>>>>> have to remember with SymPy that we are part of the SciPy stack >>>>>> (http://www.scipy.org/about.html). >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I teach using a lot of that stack, so I too need all the >>>>> dependencies installed. We agree that Anaconda is convenient, but >>>>> may be we disagree about the potential risks to the ecosystem. >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not suggesting that we deprecate the large installers, but only we >>>>>>> be careful to make sure that other options exist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm happy to do the extra work over the hour needed for sympy release, >>>>>>> to generate the windows installers, and test them. >>>>>> >>>>>> The issue is that I really want it to be possible to make the entire >>>>>> release by myself, whenever I want to. Far be it from me to turn away >>>>>> help, but the kind of help that actually isn't helpful is to say, >>>>>> "sure, I can help you do that whenever you do a release. Just ping >>>>>> me". >>>>> >>>>> Well - you plan to do the release without the windows installers. So, >>>>> why not - do the release without the windows installers - and then >>>>> >>>>> a ) ping me to upload the windows installers OR >>>>> b) let me set up an automated system to build the installers on our >>>>> buildbots and you can upload those after triggering the build on the >>>>> web and downloading the built installers to your machine. >>>>> >>>>> There's no need for the windows installers to arrive at the same time >>>>> as the source installers is there? Why not leave the binary >>>>> installers as pleasant extras on pypi to be uploaded when ready. >>>>> That's what the matplotlib guys have done for the last release, for >>>>> example (for OSX). >>>>> >>>>>> And it isn't you personally. I don't want the release to become >>>>>> dependent on *any* one person, myself included. That's why I worked so >>>>>> hard to make the whole release process automated, so that it can be >>>>>> reproduced by anyone (with the caveat that I'll need to give you >>>>>> access to PyPI if you want to do it, but I'll do that for any core >>>>>> developer who volunteers to do a release). >>>>> >>>>> As you can give access to pypi, I can give access the buildbot >>>>> machinery, or set up the machinery to do the work automatically. The >>>>> buildbot stuff is all on github, so it would not be very hard to set >>>>> up your own buildbot farm if you don't want to use ours. I agree >>>>> completely that it's good to automate the process and make it easy to >>>>> pass on - we had the same idea when setting up the buildbots. >>>> >>>> I suppose if you want to set that up we can support it. Are these >>>> buildbots capable of testing the installers so that we can be sure >>>> that they work? >>> >>> Yes - they build the installer and then install it into a virtualenv >>> and run the tests before uploading to a public web directory. Here's >>> one example: >>> >>> http://nipy.bic.berkeley.edu/builders/nibabel-bdist32-32/builds/49 >>> >>> It sounds like a plan. I'll set those up. >>> >>>>>> By the way, just to be clear of something, are you requesting the >>>>>> Windows installers, or just offering to help make them? I'm not asking >>>>>> to discredit you, but simply because if you do, that's an argument to >>>>>> do it (because as I noted earlier, if enough people request it, I >>>>>> could be convinced). >>>>> >>>>> You're asking because, if I do not myself want the installers, the >>>>> offer of help is not useful? >>>> >>>> No, again, not trying to discredit you or anything. Just trying to >>>> tally a vote :) >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I want the installers, because I'm going to do more classes this >>>>> year and I want my students to be able to do default installs of Sympy >>>>> - because I use it all the time and I want them to use it to - as I do >>>>> for the teaching notebooks. >>>>> >>>>> As a short thank you note, sympy has made a big difference to teaching >>>>> because it's made it so much easier to integrate symbolic mathematics >>>>> and numerical code. So, for my teaching, I want installing sympy to >>>>> be as trivial and obvious as possible. "Go to pypi, download >>>>> installer, run it". >>>> >>>> Well, you can't argue that if your top priority is to make things as >>>> easy as possible for your students, then "install Anaconda" is the >>>> simplest possible thing you can tell them, especially if you want to >>>> include more than just SymPy. >>> >>> I want my students to leave with a system they will continue working >>> with and building on, so it is OK with me that this isn't one-click. >>> >>>>> But - for the sake of the whole ecosystem - I want to avoid *having >>>>> to* depend on the monolithic installers. >>>> >>>> SymPy is the last thing that will have to depend on Anaconda, because >>>> it's pure Python, so building is not difficult. The "depending" is >>>> more of an issue for compiled packages, where building, especially on >>>> Windows, can be hugely painful. >>>> >>>> If the monolithicity is an issue for you, you can just install >>>> Miniconda (http://repo.continuum.io/miniconda/) and install just what >>>> you want. >>> >>> It sounds like we have a way forward with the buildbot installer >>> builds then. I'll get onto that very soon. >> >> Thanks. Let me know when it's ready, and give me the email I should >> give access to PyPI. > > OK - will do. > >> Should we also upload these to GitHub? We don't >> have to if you don't want to do the work with playing with the API >> (though I've already figured out how to do it if you look at the >> release fabfile). > > Huh - I hadn't seen that machinery on github - I'll look into that.
Yes, the releases API is new, and experimental. It's actually a little painful to get to work. You have to patch requests (unless they've released a new version since I did 0.7.4) to make the TLS work correctly, and make sure that three additional packages are installed. > >> Also tell me where the code is in case I need to >> make any pull requests or check on anything. > > It will be in https://github.com/nipy/nibotmi > >> Regarding me pinging you, is there a way to automate that as well >> (i.e., the release script just pings the build server somehow)? > > Yes, it looks like this is possible. You wouldn't need to ping me in > any case, you can trigger builds from the web interface as well. > > I'm just debugging a release for another project at the moment, I will > get to this as soon as I can. No rush from me. Do note that the next time I do a release I plan to remove the Windows installer creation. Aaron Meurer > > Cheers, > > Matthew > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "sympy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to sympy+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to sympy@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sympy. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sympy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sympy+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sympy@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sympy. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
