I don't think you have to reline the track, you just have to put the
curb 10 cm inside the inner line so that the measuremnt 30 cm out from
there is just the same place as 20 cm out was when there was no curb. I
think lane 1 IS 10 cm wider than the other lanes on tracks with curbs.
I just didn't want someone to install a curb around the inner line and
think they had got it right.
David Dallman
On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Mcewen, Brian T wrote:
> David Dallman said:
>
> <<< Although tracks with and without a curb (kerb in England) are both
> allowed, the distance away from the inside at which the 400 metre distance
> is measured is different in the two cases. >>>
>
> Here is the method of measurement (as told to me by Wayne Armbrust):
>
> <<<
> The "measure line" is 30 cm out from the curb if there is one and 20 cm
> outside
> the outer edge of the painted line if there is no curb. Yes, it may be
> possible to run less than 400 meters if one runs as close to the curb as
> possible, but you risk stepping on the curb and being injured or
> disqualified.
> >>>
>
> Therefore, you could not just lay down a permanent curb now that the Arcadia
> track has been lined. The circumferences of the inner line in lane one are
> different on a curbed track vs. a curbless one. The track would have to be
> RE-LINED if a curb was to be added NOW.
>
>
>
> Question: Since all races in lanes (relays, 200m, 400m, races with
> staggered starts in lanes) are essentially a race on a track without a curb,
> when a track has a curb in the innermost lane the width of Lane 1 would have
> to be different from the other outer lanes, right?
>
> The circumference of Lane 1 (with curb) would be slightly less because it is
> measured at 30 cm "inside" the theoretical 400m path. The other lanes have
> no curb so the circumference is different ( measured at 20 cm "inside").
>
> I know that all lanes are the same width, so I am betting that the start
> lines take this into consideration, and "adjust" the theoretical distance
> traveled in Lanes 2-7 appropriately.
>
> Starting to get the feeling that only the 100m is reasonably certain of
> being the distance it purports to be?
>
>
>
> NOTE: the difference in circumference of the innermost lane line between
> the two track-types would be:
>
> 2 x 3.14159 x 10 cm (change in radius) = 62.8318 cm
>
>
> ... if you assume a 100m straight and a 100m turn, which I believe is NOT
> the IAAF spec, but is close enough for a ballpark approx. of the
> circumference difference.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Dallman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 8:17 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: t-and-f: Curbless Tracks
>
>
> I hope I have got this right, Wayne will certainly correct me if not.
> Although tracks with and without a curb (kerb in England) are both
> allowed, the distance away from the inside at which the 400 metre distance
> is measured is different in the two cases. This is precisely because it is
> easier to run right on the inside line if there is no curb than if there
> is one. Therefore it's not just a question of saving up to buy a curb and
> laying it down on the inside line. In fact it would have to be laid down
> slightly further in, by the amount specified in the IAAF rules.
> I imagine the rules consider a track marked with cones to be a track
> without a curb. However, while putting down cones might stop runners
> running even inside the inner line, putting them along the inside line
> would actually penalise the runners somewhat by making them run too far.
> How much is difficult to judge, it would depend on how close the cones
> were to each other. If they were touching, it would be like a real curb,
> if they were only every 50 metres it would be like having no curb.
>
> David Dallman
>
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Keith Conning brings up the subject of curbless tracks in the public
> arena,
> > so let's talk about them:
> >
> > Keith seems to indicate to the group that because Wayne Armburst says some
>
> > tracks are mismeasured so then, a track without a curb has to be
> mismeasured.
> > I will pass that information on to the engineer gentleman we paid $20,000
> to
> > supervise construction on our track and field facility. Further I will
> pass
> > on the word to Jeb Burgess and the group at Southwest Recreation who
> charged
> > us over $200,000 to re-do the track this past summer that our facility
> must
> > be short (or long or ???).
> >
> > Why do we have a track without a curb? Our track was built with $269,000
> of
> > money that did not include any from our school district. With the
> > configuration of the old curb and the laying down of the all-weather
> facility
> > the track surface came level with the old cement curb. We did not have
> the
> > money to build a track and buy a curb, and it is legal to have a track
> > without a curb (and be a measured 400 meters), so for financial concerns
> we
> > did that. Our Principal has indicated he will start a fund with Mr.
> Conning
> > the first donor to build our new track curb, since they did help us
> refurbish
> > the facility last year at a total cost of $210,000, with the money for the
>
> > curb again falling short.
> >
> > As for wear on the inner lane line of the track. Our Head Turn Judge at
> our
> > final Invitational meeting this evening indicated that he would like to
> > apologize to Mr. Conning for the mistakes of his crew in officiating our
> > affair. We do have turn judges and they would like specific instances of
> > violations Mr. Conning has observed. He will consider replacing those
> > officials who make constant errors, as is intimated. In reality, we are a
>
> > high school of 3500 students, with 2000 students in physical education
> each
> > day (it is a two -year requirement in California) with most of the PE and
> > athletic classes having the kids run at least a couple of laps per day on
> the
> > facility. On top of that the facility is open 24 hours a day to joggers,
> and
> > is a nice option with lights and all as opposed to the street scene after
> > hours. Today, as I left school we had six elementary schools and three
> > middle schools in a meet on the track at a meet. I am inclined to think
> some
> > of these people may run on the lane line and leave it a bit worn.
> >
> > Mr. Conning cheapens the efforts of the fine athletes who have graced our
> > facility through the years, as well as the officials who keep track of
> such
> > matters with his inference that (and I quote him) "it is easy to cut off
> > distance around the turns." He indicated in e-mail to me that we should
> > take steps so that the runners will run the full 400 meters each lap in
> our
> > competition this year. I do not know, and he does not seem to be able to
> > indicate, when this has not happened. There are reasons why there is not
> a
> > curb, summarized above, with the facility quite legal and officials
> available
> > to observe lane violations.
> >
> > A simple suggestion among friends like, "Hey, did you ever consider cones
> > around the turn to deal with possible cricitism that people might sneak in
> a
> > step or two inside the line, " would have been nice. Instead Mr. Conning
> > last year went to some of the record keepers in the sport and suggested
> that
> > no marks from our site should be considered for record purposes because of
>
> > the "no curb" situation. He never came to me until today with a
> suggestion
> > about any cones. We all make choices on our style of
> > communication-----------------------
> >
> > And, oh yes, by the way, Mr. Conning--if you try to find Arcadia HS in
> > Glendora, California you might be a half an hour late for our April 14th
> > competition. Our School is Arcadia HS in Arcadia 15 minutes back on the
> > freeway, with the first Invitational Event Nik Arrhenius of Utah, who has
> > thrown 218 feet this year in the Discus, going after Kamy Keshmiri's
> National
> > Federation and Meet Record in the event at 224-03, set on our facility in
> > 1987 in the Arcadia Invitational. Despite our problems require some good
> > athletes still come to our meet.
> >
> > Yes, we will have cones around the turn at this year's meet, with the
> > inference that the failure to provide these in the past somehow making the
>
> > efforts of athletes cheaper, strongly objected to. Some 500 schools and
> 2000
> > athletes will grace our facility in two weekends, with our staff willing
> to
> > accept any and all suggestions to make the situation tops for those great
> > student/athletes.
> >
> > If anyone else would like to help donations for a curb we will add to the
> > fund.
> >
> > Doug Speck
> > Athletic Director - Arcadia HS
> > Former Meet Director - Arcadia Invitational
> >
> >
> >
>
> David Dallman
> CERN - SIS
>
>
David Dallman
CERN - SIS
