I personally try to continue to follow soccer, which I admit is not easy
living in the US, but I honestly couldn't name a single west african
soccer player. Can you?
>From FIFA world ranking - top african countries:
22. South Africa
30. Morocco
32. Tunisia
34. Egypt
Not a single west-african country ranked in top 35, unless you count
North-african Morocco as "west-african", which of course conveniently becomes
east-african for purposes of running-related discussions.
If Moroccans, South Africans, Portugese, Spaniards and Mexicans
can succede in both soccer and distance running,
how can we still argue that Kenyans cannot be competitive in soccer because
of their body types?
What great Western African soccer teams are we talking about?
Cameroon and Nigeria had a few good moments, but on the world scale...?
Oleg.
> So why so many great soccer players from Western Africa?
>
> On Tue, 1 May 2001, Oleg Shpyrko wrote:
>
> > RE: Soccer.
> > Soccer is much more technical than distance running. You need access to good
> > coaching, facilities, etc., whereas with distance running the overall
> > approach is much more simple.
> > Additionally - in my opinion soccer is much more competitive sport
> > throughout the world. Soccer is #1 sport in the world, and in almost every
> > country - in Europe, South America, or even Asia and Africa - A LOT more
> > money thrown into soccer compared to Kenya. Kenya is 17th poorest country in
> > the world, so even if ALL of their resources go into soccer, it still cannot
> > be even compared to resources that go into sport in countries like France,
> > Italy or Brazil. Additionally - soccer is very different because you need a
> > long tradition of being good at soccer, unlike distance running, you cannot
> > become great overnight, even if you throw a lot of money into it. Even after
> > soccer spread out to asia, africa and US, european and south american
> > countries continue to dominate soccer on the world scene. Great example is
> > US, which after World Cup on their soil in 1994 started spending a lot more
> > to become competitive on the world scene, and which probably spends tens or
> > even thousands times what a tiny country like Croatia is spending, but what
> > they lack is tradition - something a lot of European and South American
> > countries have plenty of. Additionally - geographically European and South
> > American countries are at advantage because of well-established league
> > systems/tradings, UEFA championships etc. This is something countries like
> > USA, Canada, Kenya etc. lack in trying to become good at soccer on
> > international level. In other words - while DC United plays New England
> > Revolution, Manchester United is playing Dynamo Kiev or Real Madrid. See the
> > difference?
> >
> > You cannot make the same arguments about soccer, which requires a much more
> > substantial combination of factors to have a successful team. It's a much
> > more complex situation, and being #1 sport in the country (which is true for
> > most of the world) doesn't automatically mean there will be great soccer
> > players from that country.
> >
> > Oleg.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of P.F.Talbot
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 12:52 AM
> > To: Oleg Shpyrko
> > Cc: Track list
> > Subject: RE: t-and-f: Follow the money was- Flat earth Creationism
> >
> >
> > Soccer in Kenya is more popular than running, has more particpants than
> > running, and offers potential financial rewards far greater than running
> >
> > There aren't any great Kenyan soccer players that I know of.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Oleg Shpyrko wrote:
> >
> > > RE: Economical reasons.
> > >
> > > Would there be more american champions
> > > if winning a major marathon by a US runner was worth $10, 20 million?
> > > Kenyan GDP is $270 per capita. Even relatively low-key 10K like recent
> > > James Joyce Ramble offers $1000 for a win, plus appearance fees.
> > > Peanuts money for average american, 4 years or so worth of typical wage in
> > > Kenya. Winning Boston, Chicago, New York - each would put a kenyan winner
> > > into "Kenyan Bill Gates" range. For an american - something one could earn
> > > working 9 to 5 for a year or two. In many ways, I still can't understand
> > > what motivated Rodgers, Flemming, Meyer, Hodge and others 20 years ago
> > when
> > > all the road races offered was asphalt and adrenaline.
> > >
> > > If you are still not convinced about economical factor - look at Russia
> > > and countries of Eastern Block. I am no anthropologist (not even a
> > > journalist!), but I strongly suspect one would be hard-pressed to identify
> > > genetic difference between, say, polish or ukrainian or romanian and
> > > american, brittish or german. The melting pot the Europe has been for so
> > > many centuries - who could tell? Maybe russians have more asian genes
> > mixed
> > > up, but for the most part they should be much closer to anglo-saxons than
> > > kenyans.
> > >
> > > Culturally there might not be that many key differences either. Russians
> > > lead slightly more active lifestyle, but their diet consists of greasy
> > foods
> > > as well (try living through long cold winters on rice and water), rich in
> > > fats and proteins. Total populations are about the same.
> > >
> > > So why in a single week of Boston, London and Rotterdam marathons, a dozen
> > > or so Russian/Polish/Romanian women break 2:30 - how many US women broke
> > > 2:30 in the past 5 years?
> > >
> > > The reasons are mostly economical, IMPHO. Russia is no Kenya, but a few
> > > grand will buy you a lot more in Russia than in US. Plus some of those
> > > marathoners are basically unemployed in Russia, or have to work odd jobs
> > to
> > > put some bread on the table (and I mean that literally). So there you
> > have -
> > > Pozdnyakova and Kuznetsov cleaning up every race in sight, running 4, 5
> > > marathons a year, plus another dozen or two of smaller races.
> > > For them, the times and titles don't mean much unless there's a price tag
> > > associated with it. Economically, for some of those women, for example, it
> > > makes more sense to race 4-5 marathons a year in high 2:30ies-low 2:40ies
> > > (which would probably still win most of them), rather than train for a
> > > single sub-2:30 one.
> > >
> > > I do believe, that even leaving the cultural differences between US and
> > > Kenya
> > > aside (Ninetendos, McDonalds, School Buses etc.), if running was as big as
> > > NBA or NFL in terms of yearly earnings, contracts, etc. offered to top US
> > > runners, US would dominate distance running like they do basketball.
> > >
> > > Oleg "yet another 'flat-earth creationist'?"
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Derderian
> > > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 8:04 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: t-and-f: Follow the money was- Flat earth Creationism
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > What if, Jon, 20 years from now Africans lose their depth and say the
> > > > Japanese begin to dominate...then what? Will your findings still hold
> > > true?
> > > > What would the scientists of the early 20th century say about the
> > Finnish
> > > > runners now? They dominated so well, but then fell off the earth.
> > > >
> > > Well, in MY book. Boston Marathon history. I tell about the reactions to
> > > American Indian runners, Canadian runners, Korean runners, Finnish
> > runners,
> > > Japanese, and even Americans. Always there was the opinions that "they"
> > had
> > > special advantages. The "if only" lament is very human. It is interesting
> > to
> > > see how things shift over 100 years. But no group had the domination of
> > the
> > > Kenyans at Boston. But no group had the big bucks of John Hancock pulling
> > > them out of their home countries.
> > >
> > > So let's get away from the cultural, the genetic, and maybe discuss the
> > > economic angle here particularly that of sponsors and agents. Stuff that
> > > wasn't around in the olden days. The last chapter of the second edition is
> > > titled Secrets and Agents. Soon I have to write a third edition.
> > >
> > > What do guys think of that? $$$$$$$ but how exactly is the money driving
> > > the sport? How do you make money, sell products and services. Follow the
> > > money? Where does it come from and where does it go?
> > >
> > > Tom Derderian
> > >
> > >
> >
> > *******************************
> > Paul Talbot
> > Department of Geography/
> > Institute of Behavioral Science
> > University of Colorado, Boulder
> > Boulder CO 80309-0260
> > (303) 492-3248
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
>
> *******************************
> Paul Talbot
> Department of Geography/
> Institute of Behavioral Science
> University of Colorado, Boulder
> Boulder CO 80309-0260
> (303) 492-3248
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
