Hi,
I think, there are two main objections here, that came up in this
thread: The key you propose and the objections you got by the
wheelmap-people regarding the wheelchair-Key.
1) The key you chose:
As other already pointed out, sticker can be anything, and even worse:
any entity can have more than one.
Think about stickers like "listed in tourist/gourmet/... guide xxx",
"save harbour for children" (we have something like that locally here),
"service quality approved by {any-organisation}" and so on.
You will find hundrets, if not thousands of these all over the world,
and the "sticker"-tag get's useless as the meaning is totally different
between values.
In contrast, think about what Chaos proposed: it's inside the
wheelchair-namespace (as it refers to wheelchair-users that's perfect),
and it's what your particular sticker should express: there is trained
personal who is able and motivated(?) to help you.
This is better for several reasons:
a) it's directly visible, what should be expressed (as long as you
understand common English language of course)
b) it's uniform across the world, even for stickers with similar meaning
from other organizations, or even for stuff not directly expressed by
stickers but instead e.g. by flyers and the personnells behaviour.
2) The wheelmap-People and the wheelchair-tag:
IMHO the wheelchair-tag as it's used now and as it's used by the
wheelmap is broken: It sums up many properties to evaluate the overall
useability of the entity by wheelchair users. Let's look at a few of
these properties:
- toilet wide enough and useable by disabled with a wheelchair: There's
a big difference between a small sports wheelchair and a big electronic
wheelchair, where not all of them are as small and mobile as the one
e.g. Raul uses.
- e.g. for a cinema: is it possible to see a movie with a wheelchair?
What's the use if it's only possible in one of six theaters inside that
cinema, and your movie is shown in anotherone?
- the wheelmap defines wheelchair=yes (their best mark) as "all rooms
wheelchair-safe". Great: but who cares if the toilets for
non-wheelchaired guests are above stairs? Or if there's a small part of
the room some stairs up, that's not different from the others in the
other properties?
- According to what the wheelchair people say, a shop that offers
toilets is only wheelchair=yes, if these toilets are useable by
wheelchair users; but why should that be necessary? It's not that common
that people need a toilet while shopping (at least when buying everyday
goods).
Therefore:
A fast-food hut that does not provide a sufficient toilet is
wheelchair=no, but a restaurant, where all ways toward it include stairs
some hundret meters away is wheelchair=yes (yeah, the restaurant is
wheelchair=yes, but you cannot reach it - cool!).
As a conclusion IMHO it's NECESSARY to extend the wheelchair-tags to
enable more detailled information, and I think, wheelchair:trained_staff
= yes would fit in there very well (but: it's not perfect either, as
it's not clear how to determine wether it's guaranteed that at any time
a trained staff member is available; but I guess that's similar with the
sticker you proposed).
regards
Peter
Am 05.07.2013 12:47, schrieb Shu Higashi:
> Thanks for many comments.
>
> I found I've forgotten one important explanation. Sorry.
>
> The concept of Heart Barrier Free Project is different from Wheelmap.
> (I'm an ambassador of Wheelmap.org in Japan and talked on this with
> Raul and Chris - the developer of wheelmap.org - several weeks ago.)
> Wheelmap.org's evaluation criterias are phisical ones.
> On the other hand, Heart Barrier Free Project's evaluation criteria is
> very subjective.
> A restaurant may be tagged with wheelchair=no if there are steps at
> the entrance.
> But, If the owners and employees have a warm heart to welcome disabled
> persons,
> and have some lecture on disability, they can lift a wheelchair and
> can help to go to
> toilets and can put on a sticker in front of their restaurants.
> Disabled persons like wheelchair drivers can assess the hospitarity of
> the restaurant.
> Several week ago, I consulted Raul about "wheelchair=welcoe" tag.
> But, he thinks it may confuse users of wheelmao.org.
> So, I proposed more generic tag.
>
> Shu Higashi
>
> 2013/7/5, Ronnie Soak <chaoschaos0...@googlemail.com>:
>> How
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/lug/2013, at 04:28, Shu Higashi <higa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> amenity=restaurant
>>>> sticker=yes
>>>> image:sticker=http://www.heartbarrierfree.com//image/logo.png
>>>> website:sticker=http://www.heartbarrierfree.com/
>>>> name:sticker=Heart Barrier Free Project
>>>
>>
>> How about an even more generic tag? Nobody would know what
>> 'heartbarrierfree' would mean as a value to any tag without doing
>> additional research.
>> Also the same service could be organized by another group. it surely will
>> in other countries.
>>
>> wheelchair:trained_staff = yes
>>
>> Would be my suggestion.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chaos
>>
>
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