On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 1:14 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdre...@gmail.com > wrote:
> > I didn't want to quibble and am seriously trying to understand you. To me, > a "group of trees" means a few trees, say starting from 3 to maybe 20 or > maybe even 50 on the extreme end, usually something lower than 10. > A group is an unspecified, and possibly indeterminate, number. You're thinking of small groups. :) Come up with a better term if you think it necessary. I was trying to convey that this was a tag that applied to anything from a copse to a forest. What we're trying to come up with a suitable name for is a tag to use when trees are too closely spaced *or trees which are not closely spaced but cover a very large area) that tagging individual trees would be far too much effort. Sherwood Forest is 450 acres of trees. > I've looked this up, and seems it is like 1.8 sqkm which are the same as 180 hectars. Typically a forest has between 400 and 1000 trees per hectar. Now 72000 - 180000 trees for me are not anywhere near a "group", and I don't think this is "quibbling". I only asked to be sure about usage of the term "forest" in names in the UK, as I suppose you are a native, and also about the term "group". Again, I was trying to use a word describing anything from a copse to a forest. And possibly even a large roundabout near me which has several trees on it that are too closely-spaced to map individually. Mathematically, groups can be infinite in size, although I don't think we have any forests that large. indeed, the name belongs to a nature reserve. This is not about landuse or > landcover, it is about something legally defined. > Nope, you've diverted onto a sidetrack. This was about whether it is sensible to continue to use landuse=forest both for unlogged areas/groups/clusters of trees (better as landcover=trees) and for logged areas/groups/clusters of trees. There will be other copses/woods/forests/groups/areas of trees which are not nature reserves and are not grown for logging. What we could have and don't have yet, is a systematic approach for nature > reserves/protected areas about what the name is, e.g. "forest", "lagoon", > "archipelago", "island", "hills", etc. It wouldn't mean all the area is a > "forest", it only indicates what the name is about (in a formalized tag in > English). > You're on that sidetrack again. The tag landuse=forest is documented about marking areas where trees are grown to be logged, and which are periodically cut down, yet it is being used for places like Sherwood Forest which are largely landcover=trees. The introduction of landuse=forestry and deprecation of landuse=forest would help resolve that. inside the forest there will usually/often also be areas where landcover is > not trees, e.g. lakes, meadows, etc., but which are contained in the > legally protected area. These areas should not be mixed up (IMHO) with > landcover or landuse, as their boundaries are not depending on each other. > Now you appear to have diverted to a sidetrack of your sidetrack. A protected area may contain areas of trees that are not logged and areas of water, amongst other things. Landcover=trees explains where there are trees not grown for logging better than landuse=forest (which is supposedly about logging, and doesn't apply to an area that is called a forest even though it has lakes in it). 1) Outer area (however we tag it) has name Sherwood Forest. 2) Inside Sherwood Forest are one or more areas tagged landcover=trees and possibly lakes, streams and meadows. How we deal with that is (possibly) a different problem. Right now, it's about deprecating landuse=forest because it's being used two different ways. And we ended up on this massive diversion because I happened to mention that one reason people misuse landuse=forest because they encounter groups of trees that aren't being grown for logging in an area named (for example) Sherwood Forest. The mention of Sherwood Forest was to underline why landuse=forest is a bad way of tagging things. The fact that Sherwood Forest is a nature reserve is a side issue. -- Paul
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