marc marc wrote:
"well in this case, this shop isn't a bulk_purchase=yes shop
bulk_purchase=* in osm mean that you can BUY item in bulk
not that the shop has a stock of product that he packs for you on site.
bulk_purchase informs how the customer can have the product and not in
what form the stock in the shop is kept"
I disagree on that definition. For me bulk purchase means that you can buy the
exact quantity you want and is not related to the packaging even if in most of
the cases you have the opportunity to re-use a paper bag you already used.
Also, the wiki page of the tag is not clear at all about that and we can see
multiple topics where people don't have the same definition:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bulk_purchase says: "Tag to use for
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_purchasing>bulk purchasing, if a shop offers
products/without packaging/."
But the wiki page defining the "bulk purchasing" in the link says: "Bulk purchasing
is the purchase of much larger quantities than the usual, for a unit price that is lower than the
usual."
The two definitions presented in the same sentence don't say the same thing. In
some countries there are a lot of shops specialized in selling products in
large quantity. But you almost always have a container with the product.
Another thing is that it's really rare to be able to buy products without
packaging. It's possible for bread for example but not with most of the food
products. In most of the cases you need a package but the package could be a
reusable one (glass jar, reused paper bag...).
Maybe the definition of the bulk_purchase tag is not clear enough and could be
merge with the reused_packaging one.
I just see different things here that may need to be distinguished:
- buying products in large quantity,
- buying products without packaging,
- buying products using a reused package (a package that the customer chose and
bring to buy the product such as a reused paper bag or a package that the shop
proposes and expects the client to bring it back later),
- buying a product in bulk in order to buy the right quantity, no more, no less.
marc marc wrote:
PS: I think your butcher is outdated, I haven't seen any refusals
for at least 2 years :) including in Carrefour-like shop
I can tell you from many feedback I heard with different members of the
Zero Waste France organization that there are still a lot of shops that
refuse. And that's a barrier for people who want to start to reduce
their amount of waste. That's why Zero Waste is making stickers to
identify the shops that accept reusable containers. There is a real need
identified there.
marc marc wrote:
Frederik Ramm wrote:
Do we even have a remote hope of achieving a
level of completeness and timeliness that makes this usable?
no more or no less than for landuses.
in places where there are contributors interested in the subject,
applications/sites using osm are the best ones.
where no osm contributors but contributors to proprietary databases,
those are the best.
That's also why I propose to add a condition for shops for which the
involvement is not clear enough in the long time:
A shop accepting reusable containers should physically display it on
the shop. It could be a sticker on the shop window, a sign hand-made
by the shop saying "here you can bring your reusable containers" or a
shop that explicitly says "Zero waste shop" meaning that the
philosophy is not to sell products with packaging.
This will limit the tag to shops that really want to do the involvement. And I
think that when you start doing it and you display it it's complicated to come
back to your decision. This won't be seen as a good change from your customers
if you stop accepting reusable container from one day to another.
On 12/09/2019 13:18, marc marc wrote:
well in this case, this shop isn't a bulk_purchase=yes shop
bulk_purchase=* in osm mean that you can BUY item in bulk
not that the shop has a stock of product that he packs for you on site.
bulk_purchase informs how the customer can have the product and not in
what form the stock in the shop is kept
PS: I think your butcher is outdated, I haven't seen any refusals
for at least 2 years :) including in Carrefour-like shop
Le 12.09.19 à 12:54, Antoine Jaury via Tagging a écrit :
And sorry Marc but I don't have an article explaining the use of one-use
only bag proposed by bulk purchase shops.
In my case, I buy only bulk purchase products and it often happen in
supermarket for example that you can only use the supermarket's paper
bags with a plastic window on the bag to see what is inside. I tried
once to use in an "Carrefour shop" a paper bag I reused from another
shop and one of the sell men explained to me that I couldn't do that
because they need to see what is inside the bag without opening it and
for hygienic reasons we can't reuse a bag multiple times.
As explained also in my previous message: butchers, backery, pastry
shops ... are the perfect example of shops with bulk products that will
not automatically accept reusable packaging. It's difficult for instance
to find a butcher that will accept that you use your glass jar to buy
some meat. Most of them will say that they have to use one-use only bags
for hygienic reasons.
On 12/09/2019 12:29, marc marc wrote:
Hello,
Le 12.09.19 à 12:20, Antoine Jaury via Tagging a écrit :
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/reusable_packaging
Definition: Describes a shop accepting reusable containers from their
customers and/or proposing some
it'sn't the same as
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bulk_purchase ?
you said "Some shops selling bulk products will only accept that their
customers use the one-use only bags proposed by the shop. "
bulk product in one-use packaging provided by the store ? I have never
heard such a contradiction. do you have a link to an article on this
subject?
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