On Tuesday 04 August 2020, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > Christoph, I guess it could be seen from looking at the email headers > or when reading in a threaded view, but for the convenience of > everybody I’d ask you to add a bit of context to your contributions > here (in particular to whom you reply)
Sorry - i sometimes forget that there are people who seriously read mailing lists in a non-threaded view. That mail was in reply to muralito's detailed comments in reply to Frederik: > As with any terms in OSM context, we should'nt literaly translate the > terms betwen languages because we can incurr in errors. Sometimes > also between dialects of the same language the same word have > different meanings. In this case, "coastline" should'nt be translated > to spanish as "costa". Acording to RAE.es (official institution for > the spanish language), it defines "costa" as "Orilla del mar, de un > río, de un lago, etc., y tierra que está cerca de ella". Translated, > in spanish "costa" does not mean only seashore ("Orilla de mar"), it > could be a river bank ("Orilla de río"), lake shore ("Orilla de > lago". So that any city or comunity defines itself as "costa" or > "costera", or "SHORE" or any other term, is not related to the OSM > coastline definition. It is also different from the definition of > "coast" from Oxford Dictionary (6th edition that i have in hand), > which refers to the land besides the ocean or the sea. > > In some cases, like this, the wikipedia article lacks the accuracy to > define river. The river starts in Paralelo Hito Punta Gorda and ends > in the line between Punta del Este and Punta Rasa. > > Here in Uruguay we have two "coast", the oceanic coast > (natural=coastline) which begins in Punta del Este and goes to the > border with Brazil. The other "coast" is the river, which is why > Montevideo, Buenos Aires, etc, are known as "ciudad ribereña" > (riverside city). The oceanic coast in the Argentina side, also > starts in Punta Rasa. Those two different coast are very different > All this facts are clearly visible and verifiable being here. Just > like other thing they are not visible in aerial imagery [3]. > > The motivation to not map as coastline are not political, but > technical. The political issues were solved at least 60 years ago, > with scientific consensus. [1][2] There is no other place where the > coastline could be placed. There has been, and there is wide > consensus in both local communities (i cannot say absolute consensus > without checking). The limit of Rio de la Plata is historically > recognized by politics and scientists. The legal, or official > definition is settled at least 60 years ago, by political means > (binational protocols, UN international treaty, IHO definitions), y > scientific studies. Also newer/modern scientific studies and papers, > based on salinity, batimetry, water flows, sediments, mathematical > models, etc. confirms what the old scientific studies and political > have agreed that the limit of the ocean is between Punta del Este and > Punta Rasa, so there should be no discussion here. Besides this, in > 2016 the UN extended the sovereignty rights of Uruguay in the > continental platform for 350 nautical miles [11], but this is another > issue and is not mapped yet. And speaking about politics, both navies > pursues industrial fishing pirates, mostly from Asia. > > This is just a very width river, with a basin size like India, or 10 > times Germany, it obviously brings a very large amount o fresh water, > which influences the salinity of the ocean waters several tenths of > km inner into the ocean from Punta Rasa or Punta del Este. > > According to some people, mapping the coastline where I think where > it should be, and where it was since the river was mapped at least 6 > years ago, that kind of mapping, maybe some renders create artifacts > because they consider this as inner water and not ocean. I see no > problem in that, because in the aerial photo [3] the colour of the > river is like any other river, and not like an ocean. For example, i > linked two videos showing the clearly the difference between Rio de > la Plata and Atlantic Ocean [9][10] > > If you choose to map this riverbank as coastline, is just mapping for > convenience (for convenience of the renderer), to see the world map > as you prefer to see it, but it is not modelling the world as it is. > > By the way, the problem in january 2020 with the rendering toolchain > fails were not caused for moving the coastline to the ocean/river > limit, as it was there for several years, but were caused by a > changeset which changed the tagging of the riverbank as coastline. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging