Joseph Eisenberg:
> Re: "Perhaps it would also be possible to then tag electricity:grid=yes and
electricity=no in the case of grid connected houses experiencing a long-term power
outage during a natural disaster?"
Generally OpenStreetMap data is not updated frequently enough by mappers and database
users for us to map temporary states (e.g. anything which lasts less than 6 months).
Many database users will download a data extract for offline use and only update this
every 3 months or so - see Maps.me for example, and perhaps facebook's use of
OpenStreetMap data.
I agree.
But there are some interesting cases around that 6 month range.
For example we now have access:covid19
Another example is road work on motorways. That can easily take 6 month to a year.
First they do one side and have both directions share the lanes of what was earlier
one direction. Then they do the other side.
Sometimes mappers change the speed limit to e.g. 60 km/h, but usually when the work
is finally done, it takes a long time for someone to put it back at 130.
It would be useful to be able to tag a temporary speed limit with an estimated expiry
date. And maybe an estimated start date for offline maps.
And we could do the same for natural disasters.
And most objects in OpenStreetMap are currently only checked and updated once every
few years.
Perhaps someday the community of mappers will be vibrant enough that we could imagine
updating tags every month or every week, but at this point such a situation is very
far away. So for now we should encourage mappers to focus on permanent or
semi-permanent characteristics which are unlikely to change in the next few months.
-- Joseph Eisenberg
On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 6:36 AM Lukas Richert <lrich...@posteo.de
<mailto:lrich...@posteo.de>> wrote:
I have now switched over the tagging and examples to the namespace based
tagging
of grid and generator. Overall, this makes it easier and clearer to tag
backup
generators and grid-connected houses with solar panels etc IMO. Perhaps it
would
also be possible to then tag electricity:grid=yes and electricity=no in the
case
of grid connected houses experiencing a long-term power outage during a
natural
disaster?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity>
Regards, Lukas
On 03/11/2020 22:07, Lukas Richert wrote:
I also think the *electricity:grid=yes/no/backup* and
*electricity:generator=yes/no/backup* tags are clearer and would allow for
off-grid buildings to be tagged more distinctly.
The electricity tag isn't used a lot yet. I have no experience with
automated
or semi-automated edits, but perhaps changing electricity=none and
electricity=grid to electricity:grid=yes would be relatively
straightforward?
(This is unfortunately the problem with people adding major
undiscussed/proposed tags to the main wiki. Especially power_supply is
frustrating. )
What do others think about the tag options
electricity:grid=yes/no/backup
electricity:generator=yes/no/backup
electricity=yes
electricity=no
[electricity=yes would be used when grid or generator is unknown] instead of
electricity=grid
electricity=generator
electricity=yes
electricity=no
Cheers Lukas
On 03/11/2020 21:20, Andrew Harvey wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 00:13, Lukas Richert <lrich...@posteo.de
<mailto:lrich...@posteo.de>> wrote:
Hi,
While the original proposal did specify that generators are usually
diesel, broadening the definition would only lead to a loss of detail,
but
the tagging would still be correct. I'm hesitant to use *offgrid* as a
building that has, for example, a grid connection with solar panels on
the
roof would then be tagged as *electricity=grid;offgrid* instead of
*electricity=grid;generator*. The former is illogical.
However, I don't have any experience in developing countries: is it
easier
to verify if something is off-grid compared to if it is connected to a
generator? And, would it be necessary to differentiate between local
grids
(i.e. 2-3 generators, no substations, transfromers, etc.) and national
grids? Perhaps then a network tag would be useful, i.e.
network=national,
local, regional similar to the way cycle networks are mapped?
A further suggestion was to change the tagging
to***electricity:grid=yes/no/backup* and/or
*electricity:generator=yes/no/backup*. This might be less ambiguous for
tagging amenities or buildings that get electricity from both sources
and
would then be more consistent with tagging such as
*electricity:generator:origin=diesel* when, e.g. a building has a backup
diesel generator but is connected to the grid. Unfortunately, it would
then not be consistent with the use by the Healthsites Mapping Project,
although this already has the inconsistent *electricity=none* tag which
should probably be changed directly to *electricity=no.*
Here is the link to that suggestion I made
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#multiple_values
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#multiple_values>
and
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#origin_of_different_sources
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#origin_of_different_sources>
The whole point of the proposal process is to identify these potential
issues,
resolve them, and get community agreement. If the goal is just to implement
someone else's standard then we can't use the wisdom of the community here
to
improve the tag, therefore I'm not too fussed about making this match what
another project is using, instead we should aim to have the best tags and
documentation as the outcome of this proposal process. Then if that's
different, other projects closely tied to OSM can migrate to the OSM
community
accepted schema.
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