On Sun, 2011-07-10 at 15:02 +0100, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > I think it's reasonably obvious by now that the two sides in this debate > aren't ever going to be reconciled.
I guess that depends on your definition of reconciled. > It's not exclusively an .au problem, but it is mostly. If you look at > any of the analysis done recently, Australia simply hasn't taken to > ODbL+CT in the way that other countries have. > ... [ODbL figures] ... > That's pretty stark. > > Steve and Sam might have between them put their finger on why it's > different > (http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2011-July/008268.html). I'm > sure personalities also have something to do with it, as they do with > any open source project. Regardless, it's unquestionable that it _is_ > different in .au. I think the biggest problem people in .au had was that there were some issues which were specific to the Australian usage of OSM (imports of gov data, etc). Those who sought to change the licence claimed to be listening to people, but when Australian mappers raised issues, we were simply told 'bad luck youre only a tiny percentage of the data'. Part of the problem that has arisen is that our data would be affected more than most by the removal of CCBYSA imported data. Some people looked at this as simply a data loss in a remote part of the world, the same way most of us wouldnt care if a big import from Africa was due to be removed for the same reason. The OSMF has always accepted that some users wont accept the licence (whether on principle or because of the sources they wish use) and this loss of mappers will be acceptable for the future progression of OSM. >From the OSMF perspective, they feel this is a required step to move on. >From the Aussie perspective, it feels like its acceptable to lose our contributions, or at least easier to remove them than to work to resolve any minor attribution issues that we ('we' meaning a few users knowledgable about the licence) have raised. > So, I think, we need to get away from this idea that a fork is a bad > thing. It isn't. There are two divergent communities, and it doesn't do > either side any good to try and hold them together when they're so opposed. It doesnt do either side any good to cut ties and drift our separate ways either. Just because you dont get along with someone on a desert island, it doesnt mean you isolate yourself on the other side, your strength together will be much more than your individual strength. > FOSM appears to be slowly becoming established, both technically and as > a brand, and that's good. Benefiting from all the OSM code and > ecosystem, plus the free gov.au data, is a pretty good headstart for a > "new" forked project and I'd be amazed if it couldn't succeed given that. The problem for OSM will be when all the incompatible CCBYSA data is removed, and that 'headstart' is more like fosm being a late starter in the race while the other runner is contemplating cutting his foot off at around the time the two racers are level. > So please, let's stop hitting each other over the head with this. OSM > can exist with ODbL, FOSM can exist with CC-BY-SA; people will choose > which one to contribute to (or, indeed, both). You are covering one point of the equation, the contributors. What about the map users? Sure, its great to have a massive network of contributors, but if the data being contributed isnt being used or isnt complete enough to be used, then you'll lose the masses. The masses dont want to add nodes and new roads, they want to replace garmin maps with OSM maps, so they can drive for their job or their holiday. They dont care about what licence is on the maps, they just want the most complete maps they can get. If that means a choice of OSM or OSM - 52% who in their right mind would choose the smaller dataset? The fact that you might lose 100 mappers, might not really affect the project, the fact of losing a whole country of consumers, might. David _______________________________________________ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
