Hi Y'all. (So lived in Texas in a past life..)
Possibly also worth noting
- Many a rural/remote site has an ill defined block boundary. Some are
tucked in corners of rec reserves and some are even on private land.
(which affects road access tags)
- Naming (on signs etc) may be problematic. Service vs Brigade vs
Station for example. ie is it a concern that using the name from an
allowed database contras what locals use. To add confusion I have seen a
crop of fairly new buildings with "official" signage, but the existing
(still in use) sheds (now with a 2nd appliance) retain the old.
Cheers, Bob
On 10/10/22 16:49, Phil Wyatt wrote:
Hi Folks,
Well I am not too sure that the correct tagging of buildings is
applied at all in Australia as I can only see about 200 uses of
building:use=* in all of Oz! Seems most folks use the building tag to
denote current use rather than initial construction intention. I am
sure there are more than 200 building adaptations across the country.
I could think of several building in my state that have had second or
third lives from the original intention and none have building:use
tagging and there must be 10,000’s across the country. I also
understand that the fire station tagging will likely be much harder in
cities than in rural areas where most will be a shed on a block
somewhere. Also the more recent trend of combining fire, ambulance and
maybe SES is also something that sort of hinders a ‘generic’ standard
approach but nodes really help for each of these functions across a
single site with combined building use.
I am inclined to think that the gold standard for a standalone fire
station would be
* amenity=fire_station for the block of land on which it stands
* operator, wikidata etc and all other details on the block rather
than the building
* combined with building=fire_station (if built specifically) or
building:use=fire_station if its known that it was built for
another purpose
Sample – standalone = https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1102488871
and the gold standard for a combined facility
* amenity=emergency_service on the block (no tagging for the
renderer by using amenity=fire_station!)
* building tags of building=government (if not specific buildings
for each service)
* nodes for each service if there are not specific buildings
dedicated to each service and include all the operator, wikidate
etc on these nodes
* If specific buildings then tag the buildings (operator, wikidata
etc) instead of individual nodes
Sample – separate buildings = https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1102327375
Sample – combined buildings = https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1102321688
More thoughts?
Cheers - Phil
*From:*Mark Rattigan <m...@rattigan.id.au>
*Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2022 10:24 AM
*To:* talk-au@openstreetmap.org
*Cc:* p...@wyatt-family.com
*Subject:* Re: Tagging fire stations
Hi Phil
I suspect that 'cleaning-up' these tags would require local knowledge
for each location, and is certainly not as clean-cut as making sure
that either one or the other is used.
There are cases when only the building tag should be used, and some
when only the amenity tag should be used. And others when both are
appropriate.
The building tag is intended for the original purpose of the building
- ie, built as/to be a fire station. A historical/defunct fire station
is still tagged as building=fire_station, even when it's no longer in
use as such. (The same philosophy applies to building=church, even
when it's no longer a place of worship)
The amenity=fire_station indicates a location from which fire brigades
(currently) operate.
For example, the DFES Education and Heritage Centre in Perth could be
tagged as building=fire_station because that was its original purpose
- it was originally No. 1 Fire Station. It couldn't be
amenity=fire_station as it's not used as a fire station.
There are also plenty of minor RFS brigades which operate out of
buildings that weren't originally built to be fire stations.
As for the amenity and whether it's an area or a point - it could
possibly depend on whether the facility is solely for a fire brigade.
For example, my local emergency service building houses all of Police,
Ambulance, Fire&Rescue, RFS and SES. It seems to have the following tags:
For the building (perhaps this is incorrect though!)
building=government
amenity=fire_station
Within this building there are separate nodes:
1: emergency=ambulance_station (for Ambulance)
2: amenity=fire_station (for RFS)
3: amenity=emergency_service and emergency=ses_station (for SES)
4: amenity=police
(I thought there used to be a node tagged amenity=fire_station for
Fire&Rescue, but it's no-longer.)
Cheers
Mark
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 20:10:15 +1100
From: "Phil Wyatt" <p...@wyatt-family.com>
To: "OSM-Au" <talk-au@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [talk-au] Next tagging clean up project
Message-ID: <000401d8dbbe$f3cbf990$db63ecb0$@wyatt-family.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Folks,
I am looking for my next tagging clean-up project and wondered about
amenity
and building tags for fire stations
amenity=fire_station -
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfire_station
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfire_station> -
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mAq <https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mAq>
building=fire_station -
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dfire_station
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dfire_station> -
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mAr <https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mAr>
This is partly in response to an issue logged for the ID editor
requesting a
preset for fire stations buildings.
https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/pull/603
<https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/pull/603>
There is already an ID preset for 'Fire Station' that uses the
amenity=fire_station key/value but it did get me looking at the
differences
and how its been applied in Australia. There is a clear mix of
buildings and
amenity tagging on both station areas and buildings, and some with both
tags!
https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/australia-oceania/australia/tags/amenity=fire_s
<https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/australia-oceania/australia/tags/amenity=fire_s>
tation#combinations
Should it always be the case that the 'plot' on which the fire station
building resides is the 'amenity' and the 'building' should be separate
within the plot? To me, its not 100% clear in the wiki's.
Any thoughts?
Cheers - Phil
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