On 2016-09-29 08:58, joost schouppe wrote: > Well, I was the only one thinking that about your previous mail :) > But André is probably right: it is a strange idea to define just one > language for a nation. I wouldn't be surprised if half the people on > this planet live in countries with more than one official language. > Official languages tend to follow admin boundaries, so I don't see the > point of boundary=linguistic. But you might feed a tool like Nominatim > with an official language tag at different admin_levels. The point is that in Belgium, the official languages (communities) are delimited by boundary=political boundaries in addition to the boundary=administrative ones. Adding tags to the administrative kind to indicate the same thing as the political kind seems weird. The fact is that the /political/ kind was chosen for no particular reason (1), just because the name exists. I wonder if it's used for languages anywhere else than in Belgium. And hence, very few people understand it, even on this list. And Nominatim certainly does not. Replacing boundary=political with boundary=linguistic would suddenly make the issue clear for everybody. It's like making separate boundaries for national parks and that does not assume that they follow administrative ones (everywhere in the world).
Cheers André. (1) as often the case, OSM does not clearly define its words: what "political" means, except "areas, mostly political", the opposite of actual tagging and "electoral (?)". > Might also help with interpreting special naming styles, like in > Brussels. So you could have something like official_language="see > admin level 4" for Belgium, and official_language=fr;nl for Brussels. > Mapped this way, it might help a tool understand that you can't know > the language of a name in Belgium by just looking at the country > outline, and that in Brussels you have to look out for bilingual names. > > As we're talking Nominatim special cases: makes me think of Philippe's > long irritation that all addresses in central Brussels being returned > as in the Marollen. This is because there are only thee neighborhoods > mapped in Brussels. > > Proposed solution: the statistical sectors of Belgium are now open > data. We could map the centroids of those as neighborhood nodes. > Statistical sectors of course don't always reflect what we would call > neighborhoods (especially in the countryside, or in industrial areas > etc). But in city centers they do tend to reflect what might be used > locally. > (I don't consider this a huge problem myself, so won't work on it myself) > > 2016-09-29 6:47 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com > <mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com>>: > > Hi, > > That is exactly what I explained several times before (Nominatim's > behavior, not that feature). > I put it that what that feature does is: if name:ll=* is missing > produce an implicit one with the same value as name=*. > This means (assuming that name=* always exists), that a browser > configured with ll as one of its primary languages will always > find a name in language ll in a region where that language is > primarily spoken and is Nominatim's such "default". > Now, what you say about Flemish nl s also true for Walloon fr and > our eastern quiet and gentle friends' de. > So that if Nominatim is defining a language default "by country" > as you say, they really missed something. > They missed Belgium, they missed Switzerland, they missed Wales, > they missed the Spanish speaking South USA etc. > > I have long thought of proposing a boundary=linguistic that would > be used, typically for the Belgian regions, in parallel with the > administrative ones and that would obviously be where Nominatim > should pick that "default" language. > But I have also long abandoned the idea of feeding OSM with well > thought out suggestions because, instead of trying to understand > my goals and possibly suggesting alternatives, my fellow > contributors answer that this is not the way "we" do it, or other > denials, or that I'm out of topic or even that I'm accusing people > to "do bad job". > > Let it be, as the Beatles said. > Cheers > > André. > > > On 2016-09-29 05:20, Marc Gemis wrote: >> Here's another fact about Nominatim that I learned after a private >> conversation with Sarah. >> >> Nominatim has the possibility to install a default language for a >> country. This is not done for Belgium, but can be done for The >> Netherlands. Right now, the list is not complete and The Netherlands >> is missing. >> >> What is the result ? In case you configure multiple languages in your >> browser, e.g. NL & DE, you will see DE results in case there is a >> DE-name and no explicit NL-name. This is the case for Zutphen. >> >> What will be the impact for Belgium ? Suppose a Flemish town is mapped >> as name=X and name:fr=Y . You install both NL and FR in your browser. >> A search will now return Y. >> >> This means we might have to map name:NL explicitly. I know some will >> consider this as mapping for the tool. Nominatim has no way (I asked) >> to do this on other levels than countries. So there is no possibility >> to tell it the default language for Flanders or Wallonia. >> >> Hope this explains why in some case you get unexpected results from >> Nominatim search >> >> regards >> >> m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Talk-be mailing list >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be >> <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be> > _______________________________________________ Talk-be mailing > list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be > <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be> > > -- > Joost @ > Openstreetmap > <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/> | Twitter > <https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603> | Meetup > <http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/> > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-be mailing list > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
_______________________________________________ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
