Hi Guys
I imported NaPTAN data for my local area (Chorley) some months ago. Took
the data for Lancashire and filtered on Town:Chorley. Some of the stops
were excluded because the data had not been correctly input by reason of
no entry, misspelt, wrong town entered.
Using the JOSM:Conflate tool enabled me to identify existing stops and
merge/manipulate the data - hard work with some mistakes which I am now
correcting by field survey - I know the area well so I tend to be able
to spot errors. Conflate allows the setting of distance to match nodes -
I started at 10 meters to get the close matches then 50 metres, several
iteration through the data.
I would encourage you to add the fields naptan:ATCOCode &
naptan:NaptanCode as they are useful references when using timetable
software - all my local bus stops include NaptanCode for text alerts for
buses.
Bus stop types - most are MKD which I think translates as marked on the
ground, but CUS are the Custom and practice stops which Stuart refers.
As they are not physical should they be in OSM ? Answering my own
question - I think so because it is additional data and very useful for
map users, but I would now put in the BusStopType field. Similar for HAR
hail and ride.
Have a look at putting nodes in - helps to complete the map.
I found Latitude and Longitude locations to be accurate within 10 yards
or so, more accurate than the previously entered bus stops - I surveyed
/ used Mapillary to confirm.
Be critical about the data and your process - it helps accuracy but
don't be afraid.
Good mapping
Regards
Tony Shield (TonyS999)
On 18/01/2020 12:16, Stuart Reynolds wrote:
Hi Cj,
What you have got there is Southern Vectis’s link to a subset of the
current NaPTAN data. Please note, though, that Southern Vectis are not
responsible for this data - that is maintained by Isle of Wight Council.
NaPTAN data is always available by local authority, or for the entire
country, from the official source. You don’t need to have a login, and
instructions can be found at
http://naptan.app.dft.gov.uk/DataRequest/help on how to download
individual areas. Essentially, you will need the Atcoprefix to form
the URL and you can get this most easily by following the “last
submissions” link contained within that page.
But all this comes with a health warning!
NaPTAN data from the official source will /generally/ be more up to
date than what has been imported into OSM some years ago. But I know,
from when I proposed a mechanical edits few years ago, that many
mappers have surveyed their local stops and would be unhappy with it
being updated without a further survey by what they regard as an
inferior source, particularly if is not well maintained.
Be aware of “Custom and practice” stops in NaPTAN which are unmarked.
Buses stop there, but there isn’t something that you can see on the
ground that you can map, necessarily. Hail and Ride stops are even
worse, because they are virtual stops intended to give something that
a scheduling system can hang a time on rather than an accurate
representation of where a bus stops. You can identify all of these by
BusStopType in the data.
Common errors in the official NaPTAN data set may be missing stops, or
the inclusion of stops that are no longer in use. Some areas remove
stops when they are no longer served, even though the infrastructure
is still in place on the ground (wrong, in my opinion, but there you
go). You may also find stops that are not precisely where you expect
them to be, and they may also not have the name that is on the stop
flag on the ground.
That last one is a point worth dwelling on. NaPTAN is intended to be
granular in its data. That means that the street that a stop is on
should go into the “streetname” field, and a short name should go into
the “commonname” field. Our advice to database administrators is that
where there isn’t a prominent landmark (bus station, pub, etc) then
this is most suited to a nearby side road. That way stops along a long
road can have different names, which is essential in a journey planner
or timetable. On the ground, though, many authorities will put
composite names on the flags, and often the other way round if they
consider the main road to be more important. And they then differ on
occasion from what the operator wants to call the stop (although
operators tend to focus on just the timetabled points). Oh, and some
areas misuse the fields. In Sheffield (for good historic reasons, so I
don’t want to pick on them unduly) you will find that the commonname
is simply the stop letter e.g. CS1 which should properly be in the
Indicator field, and the common name (which should be “Century
Square”) is only found by looking at the stop area name.
All this just goes to highlight that you will need to reflect
carefully on what the fields that you are updating in OSM should be
before making the changes - although I agree that in many places the
data in OSM is way out of date and desperately needs updating.
Regards,
Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east and anglia
On 18 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Cj Malone via Talk-GB
<talk-gb@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-gb@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
Hello,
I've recently found an open data set with more accurate bus stop names
than OSM. Based on my limited survey of differences in OSM data and
this data, theirs has been more accurate. Not really surprising, since
it's there network, and most of the OSM data hasn't been updated since
the naptan import nearly a decade ago.
I intent to start updating OSM based on this data. The legal mailing
list has OK'ed this as it's OGLv3.
I won't be importing any nodes, but I do intend for it to be "machine
assisted". I will create a report similar to
https://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/ where I will then go through
on a node by node basis and decide if the node should be updated. Any
tag I edit I will add source:name=Southern Vectis, and leave the
naptan:CommonName untouched.
While I do this I could also upgrade from highway=bus_stop to
public_transport=platform, bus=yes. Keeping the legacy tags as the wiki
recommends.
I will be using this data set https://www.islandbuses.info/open-data
<https://www.islandbuses.info/open-data>
the same data set is available for more regions, but at the moment I
don't intent to use them, a local mapper would be better suited.
https://www.discoverpassenger.com/2019/06/25/open-data-portals-go-
ahead-group/
Any comments?
Thanks
Cj
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