Hello Owen,
Thanks for replying and your interest. I think your understanding is
the same as mine but I'm no lawyer.
I'm sure most of us who are focussed on this sort of thing have read the
licence T&Cs. It starts with "You are encouraged to use and re-use
the Information that is available under this licence freely and
flexibly, with only a few conditions" (which includes, if you
scroll down far enough, the OS rules). In my day lots of private
companies did use it all, in bulk, to target unwitting property owners
into paying them to try for a reduction (a right everyone has to do
themselves, for free...and may indeed result in an increase if the
inspector finds things that are new).
Each entry includes the full address and billing area but that bit is
indeed subject to OS rules. I've never been clear though how the OS
might 'own' a town name or indeed the housename someone has given to
their own property and which finds itself used by others. A house
number yes, but the name?
All I can say is what I said and I absolutely don't assume anything. I
map sites individually and locally so rarely do anything in bulk, or
affecting more than four or five properties at once, so I've never do
anything about importing big sets or looking for such datasets. Aside
from actually doing the big data exports using old 486 PCs in the 1990s
and sending the floppy disc to the council, I don't know how to access
anything more than the regular rating and council tax lists like any
consumer!
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/
<https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/>
(as I'm sure we've all read). The data is a useful cross reference for
me to have, and helps when out mapping and speaking to residents,
shopkeepers or whoever.
John.
------ Original Message ------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, August 5th 2025, 19:39
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Council tax bands, addresses and UPRNs under OGL
Hi John,
Just to make sure I haven't missed something:
When you say "the council tax band for your house is published now
under the Open Government Licence v3" I assume you mean individual
records available from the Check your Council Tax band service?
Those records are covered by OGL but that excludes the address data,
which is subject to additional OS terms.
As far as I know, VOA doesn't publish property-level Council Tax band
data for download in bulk, though of course I'd be pleased to find a
source.
Owen Boswarva
On Tue, 5 Aug 2025 at 19:20, John Rowbotham via Talk-GB
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
I used to work for the Valuation Office Agency as a surveyor (which led,
many years later to my mapping spree here!).
Absolutely right that there's been little political will to perform
revaluations. Famously a very senior Tory politician took the VOA by
surprise by effectively cancelling a national revaluation in the 1980s
by casually announcing in Parliament that people could 'tear up' the
request documents sent to them. And we all know what happened in
Scotland when the community charge (poll tax) was introduced there as a
replacement for old domestic rating.
The data we produced - the business rateable value for a commercial
premises and the council tax band for your house is published now under
the Open Government Licence v3. As I am sure many know, this allows
anyone to use the data, publish it, add it to something else...providing
credit is given. The business RV isn't really of use but the domestic
banding might help give an indication that a terrace (often Band A in my
part of the world) is 'high end' or more modern. What may be of wider
use from the council tax list is the effective date. For properties
built post 1993 when Council Tax began in England and Wales it can be a
very useful guide to the construction date. You need to check the lists
with care (it's NOT the construction date, as it's the occupation date,
so it's close...but the current effective date may be later as the
banding may have been revised as discussed in this thread). I've only
ever used that information as a conversation starter to check on site if
I don't have any other source.
There were MANY changes each month to each rating list for each council
area. They were mainly for business rateable values, but yes, even
keeping up with bands changing in one borough is indeed quite literally
a full time job.
Inspecting properties with noting but a tape measure and pencil was
hard, fun and quite revealing...with many a quirky tale to tell...and
all useful training for mapping hobbies some decades later.
John <https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/no%20details%20provided%20here>
.
------ Original Message ------
From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 5th 2025, 17:46
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Council tax bands, addresses and UPRNs under OGL
Sorry if this is pedantic but , in my council area at least, changes
after home improvements are not made until the house also changes hands.
My own entry on the register has a marking to say it should be adjusted
when I sell, with regard to an extension I had many years ago.
Chris ( Allotmentcyclist)
On Tue, 5 Aug 2025 at 12:01, Jon Pennycook <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
Regarding council tax bands - I wonder if we should add it to OSM, as
opposed to storing elsewhere and then some kind of data added to OSM
which would point to the source. After all, in theory council tax bands
could change during each regular valuation (although no Government has
dared to allow a complete re-valuation across the country). Also, it's
possible to change your tax band in theory by making changes to your
house. It's not something that I would expect mappers to check (or even
know how to), so wouldn't be updated.
Addresses and UPRNs, plus working out if properties are subdivided, on
the other hand sound like they could be useful.
Jon
On Tue, 5 Aug 2025 at 11:32, Andy Mabbett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
In a series of blog posts, the latest of which is:
https://www.owenboswarva.com/blog/post-addr12.htm
<https://www.owenboswarva.com/blog/post-addr12.htm>
my friend Owen Boswarva describes how he has obtained council tax
bands, addresses and UPRNs under OGL, from Leeds, Birmingham,
Lichfield and Hackney councils (and some of the data from Nottingham)
and made them available.
Can we now import the data, using address matching? Can we use it to
find buildings that are mapped as single dwellings, but which are in
fact subdivided?
--
Andy Mabbett
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk <http://pigsonthewing.org.uk>
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