On 19 August 2016 at 11:39, Stephen Roulston <srouls...@me.com> wrote:
> Came across this, if not too late > > Townlands, parishes and baronies were the main geopolitical units > marked and named on the maps. These were standardised, defined and > fixed on the maps in a way they had never been before. Through the > choice of script style of the placename, linework marking the boundary > and the actual fixing of the boundary itself, the Ordnance Survey was > able to create an official and administrative landscape. Today, for > example, townlands still define the land division for such state > institutions > as the Department of Agriculture (for keeping track of veterinary > 78 Landscape, Memory and History > service and, more recently, the spread of foot and mouth disease). > Townlands are the basis for recording the national census and form the > boundaries of electoral wards (Canavan 1991; Dallat 1991). Measuring > and fixing the townland boundary sometimes resulted in altering that > townland, by combining smaller townlands or by dividing larger > townlands. But while the Ordnance Survey fixed these boundaries on the > maps for administrative purposes, local social meaning and histories > were also being scripted in the maps. > Baronies correspond closely to the old Gaelic Tuath or tribal division > and it was upon this land division unit that taxes were levied during the > seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Parishes (many dating from the > twelfth century) were a religious division of land over which local clergy > had jurisdiction. But it was the townland that was (and is) the > distinguishing, > albeit invisible, landscape feature of Ireland. Many townland > names are of great antiquity and they are important not just because > they became the unit for administration during the nineteenth-century > on the Ordnance Survey maps, but because townlands are the centralising > focus of social identity in rural Ireland. ‘Centuries old, they have > not only defined the land but the people’ (Canavan 1991: 49). They are > imbued with memory and tradition through local knowledge of events or > experiences that occurred at that place. They locate where one lives, > linking one’s identity to belonging in land and home (Lovell 1998). > > It is from "Landscape, Memory and History: Anthropological Perspectives” > Edited by Stewart, P and Strathern, A (2003) in the chapter by Angèle Smith > "Landscape Representation: Place and Identity in Nineteenth Century > Ordnance Survey Maps of Ireland" > Yes, that is an excerpt of the article I posted a link to the pdf four days ago: This pdf talks a bit about the history and the naming in the 19C etc >> Landscape representation: Place and identity in nineteenth-century ordnance >> survey maps of *Ireland* >> <http://www.academia.edu/download/15820198/20110506220925888.pdf#page=76 <http://www.academia.edu/download/15820198/20110506220925888.pdf#page=76>< http://www.academia.edu/download/15820198/20110506220925888.pdf#page=76 < http://www.academia.edu/download/15820198/20110506220925888.pdf#page=76>>> >> A Smith - Landscape, Memory and *History*, Pluto Press: London, 2003 - > > > > On 16 Aug 2016, at 12:42, Stephen Roulston <srouls...@me.com> wrote: > > > > Below is paraphrased (and a little extended) from the general > introduction in the Place-names of Northern Ireland series published by the > Northern Ireland Place-name Project, Department of Celtic, Queen’s > University Belfast > > > > Earliest place names are found in mainly Irish language material, > sometimes in Latin, from 7th or 8th centuries. This is them written for the > first time - they are much older than that. The Irish Annals, started about > 550AD, had many place names particularly of tribes, settlements and > topographical features. Some of the legends recorded in the Annals give > explanations of place names. For example, the triumphal charge around > Ireland of the Brown Bull at the end of the Tain Bo Cuillaigne is said to > have generated many names. The townland/region of Athlone or Áth Luain was > named from the loins (luan) of the White-horned bull that the Brown Bull > killed there. Some must be very ancient. A number relate to Maeve, who > originated as a Mother Earth fertility god. There is Ballypitmaeve, close > to Glenavy in Co.Antrim, for instance, where the fertility reference is > very clear. > > > > We cannot know how old townland names are, but it is clear that they are > very ancient, and they were present, and probably already very old when > written records began in Ireland. Incidentally, it is ironic that it took > the Plantation in the 17th Century to gather the names in a systematic way. > It is also curious that, while Sir William Petty, who surveyed much of > Ireland, said that Irish place names were ‘uncouth and unintelligible’ and > that ‘where they cannot be abolished’, they should be translated into > English, the planters in most cases retained the original names. > > > > > >> On 15 Aug 2016, at 19:14, Killian Driscoll <killiandrisc...@gmail.com > <mailto:killiandrisc...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> On 15 August 2016 at 20:01, Killian Driscoll <killiandrisc...@gmail.com > <mailto:killiandrisc...@gmail.com> <mailto:killiandrisc...@gmail.com > <mailto:killiandrisc...@gmail.com>>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On 15 August 2016 at 19:17, Rory McCann <r...@technomancy.org <mailto: > r...@technomancy.org>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>>> Hash: SHA1 > >>>> > >>>> Hiya, > >>>> > >>>> As yous know, myself and Dave are doing a talk about townlands at the > >>>> global OSM conferences, State of the Map, in Brussels in September. > >>>> > >>>> Can anyone tell me more about the history of townlands? Something nice > >>>> to add to a slide? > >>>> > >>> > >>> See this which talks about boundaries - Baronies etc (you could say the > >>> townlands line up with the baronies....) - based from the Iron Age > >>> https://www.academia.edu/3206604/Kingship_and_ < > https://www.academia.edu/3206604/Kingship_and_> > >>> Sacrifice_Iron_Age_Bog_Bodies_and_Boundaries if you Google the bog > bodies > >>> in images you should get some you can use > >>> > >> > >> This pdf talks a bit about the history and the naming in the 19C etc > >> Landscape representation: Place and identity in nineteenth-century > ordnance > >> survey maps of *Ireland* > >> <http://www.academia.edu/download/15820198/ > 20110506220925888.pdf#page=76 <http://www.academia.edu/download/15820198/ > 20110506220925888.pdf#page=76><http://www.academia.edu/download/15820198/ > 20110506220925888.pdf#page=76 <http://www.academia.edu/download/15820198/ > 20110506220925888.pdf#page=76>>> > >> A Smith - Landscape, Memory and *History*, Pluto Press: London, 2003 - > >> academia.edu <http://academia.edu/> <http://academia.edu/ < > http://academia.edu/>> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> I've heard that townlands were mentioned in the Táin Bó Cúailnge. Can > >>>> anyone tell me more about this? > >>>> > >>>> I looked at [the scans of the Lebor na hUidre (Book of the Dun > >>>> Cow)](https://www.isos.dias.ie/master.html?https://www.isos. > >>>> dias.ie/libraries/RIA/RIA_MS_23_E_25/english/index.html? > >>>> ref=http://www.isos.dias.ie/libraries/RIA/english/ria_menu.html?ref= > ), > >>>> is anyone able to point to a word on a page and say "This is townland > >>>> X in Co. Whatever". (I tried it myself, but er, it's Old Irish). It > >>>> would impress to the Americans & other Europeans that the townlands > >>>> are ancient, and a part of our history, heritage and culture. We > >>>> didn't spend all these years mapping them just cause. > >>>> > >>>> Any hints? > >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > >>>> > >>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJXsfkoAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2NkoH/2dD/XUWA/3EDX/t04G4C+r+ > >>>> FYzLmLgkGIplClf7w1Ux0wB/6ZYgtht6dvZ8DQvRaG6YxbREZXA40HLfcsLoSru2 > >>>> 1/eAOZeEReft7oQjugsZs+uPUNzX01PZ4bk7GTZ12/bfCDwcdAX8lAJhwIGl+Lf2 > >>>> ZWKaVCNq5UmCZtUJvTs/3u5YX3nVrYorjwkQ2+X6/T/Y/jN71kxen1vLrMNJRiQ+ > >>>> 7oEAesQwUT6Vj87mMKJ2Iw3N/6LG6TxwfHSn2etF7Syb4geOV/K6kjPblcQ1usQ5 > >>>> PBSB2OB9h5Apav9QyLIq+u/P1NILDOzUJbSAv/qmyMSUBC3IArhw1hohgGum938= > >>>> =1GX2 > >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Talk-ie mailing list > >>>> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Talk-ie mailing list > >> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-ie mailing list > > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie < > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie> > _______________________________________________ > Talk-ie mailing list > Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie > _______________________________________________ Talk-ie mailing list Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie