On 2015-03-19 15:12, Clifford Snow wrote:
Looking at King County, especially Seattle, it appears that a number of
the place=hamlet are actually neighborhoods. We have been reluctant to
add neighborhood borders because of prior discussions on the mailing
list which, in essence, believe that neighborhoods don't have defined
borders. While I believe Seattle and others do have defined borders, I
really don't want to fight this all over.
If I remember correctly, the controversy was about whether municipal
boundaries belong in OSM, not whether they ever exist. The argument was
that concrete boundaries are products of government agencies and not
readily improved by OSM's volunteer mappers, which I disagreed with. [1]
But certainly many large cities have internal administrative boundaries.
For example, Cincinnati is divided into 52 "neighborhoods" -- not mere
business districts or voting wards. [2] Their boundaries are defined
precisely along major streets. The city marks many of these boundaries
with welcome signs or other decorative elements. Residents know which
neighborhood they live in. They have community councils and websites. [3][4]
Given these facts, those of us mapping Cincinnati have been quite happy
to map admin_level=10 boundaries where we happen to know them. For the
other neighborhoods, a simple place=suburb POI will suffice until
someone comes along with more info.
Many of Cincinnati's neighborhoods also contain smaller, less formal
areas like business districts and residential developments. We've been
mapping them with a mixture of landuse polygons and place=neighbourhood
POIs.
How does this compare to Seattle? Do its neighborhoods have a similar
level of organization? The GNIS place=hamlet POIs in Cincinnati mostly
fell into the latter bucket, but we turned some into place=suburb and a
few turned out to be historical.
[1]
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2013-January/010162.html
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cincinnati_neighborhoods
[3]
http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/community-development/references-resources/community-council-directory/
[4] There have even been boundary disputes between community councils.
My suggestion is to encourage people to clean up place=hamlet from local
knowledge. I fully concur with Richard Weait that we need to attract
more mappers.
When it comes to place=hamlet POIs outside major urban areas, I suspect
that we're looking for *hyper*local knowledge. I can verify the
existence of Cincinnati neighborhoods that I've never visited, because
they come up plenty on the local news. But I have no clue one way or
another about some suburban place=hamlet POIs just a few miles from
where I lived.
--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
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