Steve, Just a reminder, landuse is to tag what the land is used for. landuse=forest is for areas that have harvestable wood products, ie trees. Just because there was a fire doesn't mean the landuse changes. Landcover is a better tag for burnt areas as well as areas just clearcut.
On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:31 PM stevea <stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote: > I didn't get a single reply on this (see below), which I find surprising, > especially as there are currently even larger fires that are more > widespread all across the Western United States. > > I now ask if there are additional, appropriate polygons with tags I'm not > familiar with regarding landcover that might be added to the map (as > "landuse=forest" might be strictly true now only in a 'zoning' sense, as > many of the actual trees that MAKE these forests have sadly burned down, or > substantially so). > > Considering that there are literally millions and millions of acres of > (newly) burned areas (forest, scrub, grassland, residential, commercial, > industrial, public, private...), I'm surprised that OSM doesn't have some > well-pondered and actual tags that reflect this situation. My initial > tagging of this (simply tagged, but enormous) polygon as "fire=perimeter" > was coined on my part, but as I search wiki, taginfo and Overpass Turbo > queries for similar data in the map, I come up empty. > > First, do others think it is important that we map these? I say yes, as > this fire has absolutely enormous impact to what we do and might map here, > both present and future. The aftermath of this fire (>85,000 acres this > fire alone) will last for decades, and for OSM to not reflect this in the > map (somehow, better bolstered than a simple, though huge, polygon tagged > with fire=perimeter, start_date and end_date) seems OSM "cartographically > misses something." I know that HOT mappers map the "present- and > aftermath-" of humanitarian disasters, I've HOT-participated myself. So, > considering the thousands of structures that burned (most of them homes), > tens of thousands of acres which are burn-scarred and distinctly different > than their landcover, millions of trees (yes, really) and even landuse is > now currently tagged, I look for guidance — beyond the simple tag of > fire=perimeter on a large polygon. > > Second, if we do choose to "better" map these incidents and results (they > are life- and planet-altering on a grand scale) how might we choose to do > that? Do we have landcover tags which could replace landuse=forest or > natural=wood with something like natural=fire_scarred? (I'm making that > up, but it or something like it could work). How and when might we replace > these with something less severe? On the other hand, if it isn't > appropriate that we map any of this, please say so. > > Thank you, especially any guidance offered from HOT contributors who have > worked on post-fire humanitarian disasters, > > SteveA > California (who has returned home after evacuation, relatively safe now > that this fire is 100% contained) > > > On Aug 29, 2020, at 7:20 PM, stevea <stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote: > > Not sure if crossposting to talk-us is correct, but it is a "home list" > for me. > > > > I've created a large fire perimeter in OSM from public sources, > http://www.osm.org/way/842280873 . This is a huge fire (sadly, there are > larger ones right now, too), over 130 square miles, and caused the > evacuation of every third person in my county (yes). There are hundreds, > perhaps thousands of structures, mostly residential homes, which have > burned down and the event has "completely changed" giant redwoods in and > the character of California's oldest state park (Big Basin). > > > > This perimeter significantly affects landuse, landcover and human > patterns of movement and activity in this part of the world for a > significant time to come. It is a "major disaster." I'm curious how HOT > teams might delineate such a thing (and I've participated in a HOT fire > team, mapping barns, water sources for helicopter dips and other human > structures during a large fire near me), I've simply made a polygon tagged > fire=perimeter, a name=* tag and a start_date. I don't expect rendering, > it's meant to be an "up to right about here" (inside the polygon is/was a > burning fire, outside was no fire). I wouldn't say it is more accurate > than 20 to 50 meters on any edge, an "across a wide street" distance to be > "off" is OK with me, considering this fire's size, but if a slight skew > jiggles the whole thing into place better, feel free to nudge. It's the > tagging I'm interested in getting right, and perhaps wondering if or even > that people enter gigantic fires that will significantly change landscape > for some time into OSM, as I have done. This will affect my local mapping, > as a great much has burned. Even after starting almost two weeks ago, as > of 20 minutes ago this fire is 33% contained, with good, steady progress. > These men and women are heroes. > > > > To me, this is a significant polygon in my local mapping: it is a "huge > thing" that is a major feature on a map, especially right now. I firmly > believe it belongs in OSM for many reasons and want it tagged "correctly." > Yes, there are other maps that show this, I believe OSM should have these > data, too, as this perimeter will affect much (in the real world) and much > newer, updated mapping in OSM going forward. > > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > tagg...@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- @osm_washington www.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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