We cannot trace from the Government Survey aerial photographs. That would be copying and that argument that tracing is not copying will never succeed in a court. Tracing is just one method of copying.
If we can get aerial photographs from another entity that holds the copyright then we can use that with their permission. Let us wait to see the response to Nic from SITA. We can reconsider after that. Lance Burger -----Original Message----- From: talk-za-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-za-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of brendan barrett Sent: 13 June 2009 02:58 AM To: Nic Roets Cc: Openstreetmap ZA Subject: Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] State Copyright on "Spatial Information Products" Agreed, we want to keep "whiter than white", which is why we've been going to great lengths to get permission from gov (SG, CD, SITA)... even though the municipalities (and even some private mapping companies - in Stellies and Mpumalanga) are literally throwing data at us. I've got CD's and emailed files from all over the place... all with one thing in common... it's all state copyright, and they can't grant us permission to distribute. >From what we can tell, that power lies with SITA. As of yet, we are still awaiting a response from SITA on the use of maps under state copyright within OSM. We were supposed to have a response nearly two weeks ago, but it appears that we are not high on their priority list (and yes, we've been following up... but patience is a virtue). To be honest, I doubt that they will allow us to use their data. I think they have the interests of the bigger private mapping companies at heart. I have a feeling we will have to continue mapping SA on our aces. The one thing that I am quite happy about is that there is a little activity on the mailing list:D Nic's comment: "We can consider tracing from State aerial photos"... That's not a half bad idea. When I spoke to City of Cape Town, they said that they didn't want to release their aerial photography because they needed to recover the cost of production. Perhaps gov wouldn't mind releasing aerial photos for us to trace off if we only allow a limited number of users to trace off the data. We would have no intentions of distributing it, just deriving street data. We could set up a WMS layer with the data and only allow some local users access? Might not make sense for Cape Town (already pretty well mapped - and we have Cape Town GIS data already). Then again... if they don't allow us to use their shape file data... there's little hope of using the photography to trace off isn't there:/ Regards, Brendan On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Nic Roets<nro...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Bernd Jendrissek > <bernd.jendris...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> The "or parts thereof" also leaves me thinking that "using" includes >> making derivative works. The sentence or two describing the required >> acknowledgement of State Copyright would also be moot if this was just >> a matter of "reading a book". "A suitable statement ... must be >> included with such product" seems to me to be contemplating said >> person or private sector organisation (re)distributing a (possibly >> derived) work. > > Well spotted. The "acknowledgement" requirement indicates that some forms of > redistribution is allowed. My guess is that the writer was thinking about > * the case where someone "bundles" his software with State data to N > (specific) clients, so he asks the government for N copies of the data and > they give him one copy and tell him to make his own copies. > * or where someone combines State data with data from other sources to make > a specific map. Like an environmental impact study. > > But it's not clear if it's redistribution with or without fee and if it > refers to redistribution of a substantial part or only a few excepts (e.g. > fair use / fair trading). OSM has so far not taken risks like these. See > e.g. http://www.systemed.net/blog/?p=100 > > We can consider tracing from State aerial photos. If the "may use such > products" wording does not protect us, then we use Richard's argument that > tracing is not copying. > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-ZA mailing list > Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za > > _______________________________________________ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za _______________________________________________ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
