Well, Peter, This really sounds like a nut. If something like you describe is repeated over and over, like: Desktop, Network, Desktop, Network; I am almost ready to think this is due to some background service attempting to start, and likely not being able to perform what it wants. That could be, some sort of update, an unstabil network connection, Things like a disk Clean-up or Defragmentation, Scheduled scanning jobs from your Anti-Virus; or whatever else.
Seemingly, the software is trying to do its job, fails, and pops back to the Desktop - determines that it wants to try again, also this time failing, and returning to the desktop. The screen reader is doing its job, in picking up that something is going on, and reading out to you what it can manage, before next operation is plunging in. Since this retrying is rapidly going on, the screen reader might not have time to read out all the dialogs, and you only hear the window titles spoken. GW were asked several years ago, if a user-activated delaying filter could be implemented, that would leave the screen reader time enough to recognize and speak out dialogs like this, or even determine to skip them altogether. Their reply in short, was that they did not see it as anything useful. Another screen reader which I used before WinEyes, did have such capability, which I found useful many a time. And NVDA seems to be slow enough, or perhaps more like agressive enough, to pick up all the info and take its time to read it aloud. Now for a moment, let's imagine my assumption is right. When the software has kept attempting a preset number of times, it pops an error message on you. That message is not visible to WinEyes, like we have talked about earlier. This invisible window is trapping your mouse; and you, are pulling your hair. Yes, a wild guess, but not totally out of the blue either. Again, I suggest trying an alternative screen reader for a little. This might just prove helpful, as another screen reader might pick up what is going on, and read out some info that will point you to the real nest of your trouble. Try install NVDA. Restart your computer, and when it is all ready, turn off WinEyes. For instance by hitting Ctrl-Insert-F4, and then Enter on the OK button. Then Start NVDA, by default Alt-Ctrl-N. Work on your computer as normal, writing some stuff, checking your email, browsing some familiar website, or whatever you typically are doing on your computer. Try do some familiar job, that you do not have to deal with a load of screen reader specific keystrokes. NVDA is different, but it is not all that different, in straight forward operation of the computer. One main thing to be aware, is that NVDA does not operate the mouse, the way WinEyes does. So don't perform mouse intensive activity, and at least do not expect same result as you are used to. Our goal is first of all, to see if NVDA wants to pick up any screen info when your computer starts to play jokes on you. Peter, is this a fairly newly installed system? Or, is it an old one that has been installed, updated and reinstalled who knows how many times. I am just asking, because loads of installing and uninstalling, upgraded and fooled around with systems, they get messed up over time. In such cases, a thorough clean-up might be adviced. Things like CCleaner could be one lane to go. Are you aware whether you have any extra featuring app or software installed. For instance, some sales websites offer you to install what is named a "toolbar", that will remind you of things like when an offer comes on, or when it is time for you to pay attension to the auction you are bidding on. Toolbars could have many other functions, so these were just to samplify. Trouble about this kind of stuff, is that it in its basic is to be named Adware, but due to the user himself having accepted it to be installed, they claim that it will not categorize as malware. Still, it could activate itself, whenever it thinks it is supposed to. Hope you don't mind me reminding every reader of this thread, never to click on anything that offers you a ton, without knowing that you want it, and are OK with the activity involved. I do not mean to say this is what goes on with your system, just mentioning that this could be something to consider. Do you have any anti ware installed? Anti-Virus, Anti-Malware, Anti-Spyware? If so, run a full scan on your computer, even with each and everyone of the anti-packages you might own. Alternatively, use an online scanner. This just to make sure we have uprooted any weeds. Since you particularly mentioned the speech saying Network when the issue comes up, I do wonder if your network connection is going crazy. First, if you are on a wired connection, make sure that all cables are tightly and snugly fit. That includes the cable from your computer to the modem, and the one from the modem to the wall socket. Even the ones on any router or other hooked up units you might have. Are you on a wireless network, make sure that the cables from the modem to the wall, and to the router if applicable, are all tightly fit. Your wireless never gets better than what the cables dictate. If you know how to, maybe try resetting your wireless connection, or even changing the password. Even cross the yard, between different apartmens, and sometimes surprisingly long distance, others might be able to use your wireless connection. Have you any other people in your dwelling who are using their wireless units while you are on the computer? Or, have you recently refurnished your home, and now something like your radio or TV is troubling the wireless signals. It all could disturb the flow, and cause your computer to rapidly go on- and offline. Had some of that experience myself, many years ago. Did not understand what was going on, until I called the Internet Provider, and the tech guy told me that my internet had frequently gone on and off for the last few hours. Of course, if you want to play the full game of tracing - you could disconnect from the network. Disconnect the cable from your computer, or turn off the wireless switch if it has one. If nothing else, turn off your modem - unless that would cause inconvinience to you in any other way. Then start your computer all from start. That is, do not wake it up from hibernation or sleeping mode. Give it what we name a "cold boot". Now perform some normal offline activity for a period of time, long enough that you are sure the issue normally would have shown up. See if the issue does poke out its nose. You could of course lengthen the to-do list by also going to Network setup on your computer, and turn off the network there, just to inform the computer that it most definitely could save itself the trouble in attempting to connect to any network. Peter, I am aware that the thing you are facing might not be network related at all. I just spent a moment on advicing what to do, so as to shelter out one possibility. Is it always saying "network", when the unwanted speech goes on, or does it randomly give other messages. one thing could be to make some notes whenever the unwanted speech comes on, over a day or so, and let us know what it has been saying. Know that is a lot of extra trouble, and not sure if it will take us much further, but do give it some consideration. If you recently had someone fooling with your system, like some servicing personel, grandchildren or friends that wanted to help you out - be aware that they forcefully, or totally unknowingly, might have turned on some stuff that could be causing the issue. Maybe because they found it useful, and did not realize what trouble it would be for you. All wild guesses. And probably you feel more confused than ever. Troubleshooting could be quite a go, and specially so when we do not see all the glittery, flashing and colorful nignags that sighted people so greatly enjoy now aday on their screens. Unfortunately often such stuff is more of a trouble to the screen readers. On 2/29/2020 3:55 AM, peter Chin wrote: > Hello David, > > My mouse problems can show up at start-up or at any time afterwards. Trouble is, I don't know exactly when it happens after start-up unless I happen to want to use the mouse and I discover that the mouse is not working. When the mouse is not working, the cursor usually appears to be working fine. Whether the mouse is working or not, unwanted parts of the screen can suddenly start reading, often repeating many times, such as "Network, desktop, network, Desktop, network, desktop" and so on. > > At the moment as I am writing this reply, the mouse seems to be working alright. > > I realise that this kind of unpredictable behaviour is difficult to solve and I really appreciate your efforts to help. > > Thanks a lot. > -----Original Message----- From: David > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 7:40 PM > To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List > Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes > > Peter, > Let's see if I get you right. Please correct me where I am off-tracked. > > You start your computer, and the screen reader. For the most part, it > starts out as expected, with all mouse movements functioning. As you > keep working, all the sudden, and apparently without any further notice, > your mouse goes for a garden-party, and all the fun it leaves you is the > word "blank" when you try to control it. Did we get it right this far? > > This behavior takes place whether you are in one or the other > application.. You mentioned WLM and Windows Explorer. But are they the > only places the thing happens, or does it happen in pretty much any > other software as well? And, do you have an idea, whether this takes > place after a given amount of runtime. Does it typically happen after > say five minutes working time, or is it totally out of any time frame. > > Lastly, does it disappear after a while? > > At this point, I will have to do a couple of wild guesses. See if that > takes us anywhere. What might be an extra question is, do you have any > other screen reader installed. That is, do you for instance have NVDA on > your computer. Sometimes this can prove a beneficial thing. NVDA has in > a number of cases, proven to be a bit more agressive in grabbing info > from the screen. And due to NVDA still being developed, it keeps up with > modern screens in a way that WinEyes not always live up to. Put it the > way, that NVDA does a quick go and get what it gets - whilst WinEyes > does go about it a bit more thoroughly, but only get so much out of the > job. Both being beneficial in their own ways. And here might be one of > the cases when the more tools will give us the better job done. > > What I do get from the description you gave, the way I read it, seems to > me you have some kind of a popup window showing up on your screen. A > popup that WinEyes might not notice, but still gets crazy about. At > least your mouse might enjoy it. Such popups could be notifications > coming from other software, who needs a permission to update. Windows 7 > and up, introduced us to a new measure of security, in the User Acount > Control - which will ask your permission before performing any > deep-going action on your computer, like an update or bigger altering of > your software. Now, what if your anti-virus, your email program or any > other piece of software needs to install an update. This update is of > some major concern to the operativ system, and it will popup a message > asking if you are comfortable with this software's meddling with your > system. You likely have seen this kind of message, when attempting to > install new software. OK, sometimes software have built-in popups on > their own. I am not a WLM user, so cannot speak for that one, but it > could be it has some extra fun in popping out a message window every now > and then. > > Thing about such popups, is that they are not always easy to see for > WinEyes. And they go hide themselves behind any other stuff. Still the > mouse might stick with them. NVDA, though, has proven to be useful on my > system, in cases like that. It might pick up popups even when they > appear, and quite often alt-tabbing through the list of open software, > NVDA will report if it finds any open popups. If things like you > describe happens to me, I quickly press the hotkey to start NVDA, and > once it comes up, I might Alt-Tab my way around. Sometimes just starting > NVDA, and it automatically discovers and reads out the popup to me. > Funny thing is, when NVDA is active, I can get WinEyes to focus on the > popup and maybe even interact with it, something that is out of question > with WinEyes running on its own. Drawback of it all, of course is, that > you will have to deal with both screen readers chattering simultaneously > for the moment you have NVDA loaded. But you just need it for the time > of discovering what is going on. Once you have done what you need to do, > you just close down NVDA, and back to WinEyes. > > The other thing that could be worth a try, is for a while to turn off > all apps in WinEyes. I am not aware which app would cause your trouble, > but it might just be worth the go. > > Does your system give any pling or plung, when this misbehavior happens. > I do not mean when you press the mouse keys, but just in general. often > when a popup occurs, it might be linked with some kind of a warning > sound or tiny jingle. This to alert even sighted people, that the > computer is requesting some extra user interaction. > > Again, wild guesses. Your issue might have a hundred other reasons, and > likely other listers will have good tips here. Sometimes other software > does take over the key control, kicking the screen reader out of > business. But since you tell this started a few days back, and with no > unusual activity leading up to it, I hold that to be less likely in your > case. > > What comes to mind though, is for you to make sure your WinEyes has the > right keyboard layout. Please go to your WinEyes Control Panel. In the > tree of menu choices, focus > Keyboard. > Open it by hitting the Right Arrow. Now scroll down to the last of the > choices, which should say something like > Keyboard Layout. > Use your tab-key once. > In the list, choose > Window-Eyes Default. > Again tab once, and hit Enter on the button that says > Activate Layout. > > Since your screen reader behaves OK in some cases, I hold this keyboard > layout very little likely, but still does not hurt to make sure things > are rightfully set up. Feel free to get back with your findings, and let > the community know if you still have no luck. Unfortunately, I have seen > certain cases when a popup blocked screen reader activity, and there was > no other way than to have two eyes interact. HP systems did have a > tendency on this, when they performed updates to the system dependent > software. But don't despair all yet, a few more workarounds could be > tried, if the issue proves to be a popup. First let's discern if that is > the case. > > As for my backup script, I will get it ready for you. I wrote it for my > own usage, numerous years ago. I'll brush it up, write a quick little > get-started guide, and send it over to you. Might take a week's time, > but i'll keep it in mind. Smiles. > > And in case you co't own NVDA, get it free from: > nvda-project.org > > > David > > On 2/27/2020 5:09 AM, peter Chin wrote: >> Hello David, >> >> Thank you so much for your very extensive reply. Yes, I must admit I >> didn't give enough details abou my problems. I was in a bit of a hurry >> as I had several other things to be done. >> >> First, about the mouse keys. Sometimes when I am on the desktop or in >> my user folder, moving the mouse with the mouse keys does not read >> anything. If I try to read current icon or line, or if I move the >> mouse up or down or left to right or the other way, WE just says >> "blank". lefgt or right clicking on what I think should be the icon or >> folder I moved the mouse to does have some effect. This can also >> happen when I am in WLM. Sometimes, however, the mouse keys move as >> expected. Trouble is, I don't know when and why this happens. >> Restarting WE or restarting the computer does not solve the problem >> when the mouse keys do not work. I only noticed this strange behaviour >> a few days ago. I was not messking around with any settings at the >> time but had just started my computer. Whether the moue keys >> areworking or not, WE may just start parts of the screen I am not >> interested in. >> >> As for backing up, I don't know how to back up my C drive but I have a >> copy of my WE Defult folder and I have all my data files backed up. I >> am not very good at writing batch files, especially for Windows, so >> would be very glad to have your batch file which you mentioned. >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: David >> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:15 PM >> To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >> >> Your mouse keys do not work as expected? Sorry to hear that. Yet, I am >> afraid i do not know what exactly you mean. Is it something going on in >> all applications, or is it only (at least mainly) happening in some >> particular piece of software.? Are you aware when it all started, and if >> so, do you have a clue what you did just prior to this behavior taking >> place? >> >> Reason I am assking, is that it might point us in the direction of >> picking up a solution for you. In case you have made any updates, played >> around with some settings, or installed some extra software or apps - it >> might be a place to start helping you out. Could you explain, please, >> what it is you expect, and what does not work? >> >> It has been a known fact, that the mouse sometimes gets stuck in a >> position on the screen. Usually this would mean one of the corners. And >> why this happens might have as many answers as there are questions. >> Still, whenever something show up in that posistion - like some status >> message, for instance - WinEyes will read it out to you. That is because >> the screen reader is doing its job, however strange that might sound. >> See, the screen reader is such constructed, that it will keep an eye on >> your screen, and let you know whenever some info shows up, in places >> that you tell is of special interest. Placing your mouse, is one way of >> telling the screen reader to watch out for updated info. Now, if your >> mouse runs over and dig itself a new hole, wherever on your screen, the >> screen reader will track the mouse, and determine that likely you enjoy >> to have it chattering everything that the mouse "sniffs" in its stuck >> position. No, I am not trying to be jokie. This is the real fact. The >> big issue, and main solution, will be to have the mouse dragged loose >> from its stubborn place, and tell it to behave like good tiny mice are >> supposed to. >> >> Exactly why your mouse misbehaves, will be the thing we need to guess >> and play around. >> >> Are you on a desktop, or a laptop computer? If on a laptop, could it be >> that you accidentially are activating the touchpad when operating the >> computer. Some computers can turn off the touchpad, and if that is the >> case with yours, you might have ended up turning it back on - meaning >> that every time you place your hands on the laptop, you are in the risk >> of swiping the sensors of the pad, and the mouse will run like as if you >> had let the cat into the room. Solutions then, could be to make sure to >> deactivate the touchpad, adjust the sensitivity, or whatever features >> your computer offers you. Or, simply connect a USB mouse, and hide it in >> the very rear of your desk, that you don't ever get in touch with it. >> >> Do you have the habit of once in a while backing up your system? or at >> least the WinEyes profile folder? If so, probably one quick fix would be >> to simply copy your backup into the profile folder - thereby rolling >> your screen reader back to a point of well-behaving. >> >> If you do not own a bakup hard drive, there are a few suggestions for >> regularly being able to back up your screen reader profile, along with >> other personal files and settings. First of all, the WinEyes folder >> usually do not get very big. So even a cheap memory card of any size >> from 1GB and up, will suffice. That is, if your computer has a memory >> card slot. Otherwise, USB pen drives, again from 1GB and up, will be >> something to consider. Dig deep in your desk drawer, and see if you have >> some old hardware that can be put to good use here. And what if you >> simply don't have either cards or pen drives? Make for yourself a >> subfolder on your main hard disk. Name it something like: >> My Backup. >> Simply copy any stuff from all over your hard disk, that you want to >> make an extra backup of, into this local space. It might prove helpful, >> since you don't have to connect and disconnect anything, whenever you >> want a backup. You could even make a tiny batch file, that sits on your >> desktop, and whenever being called, would back up files from several >> locations. Then run it once a week, or every time you think you have >> made important updates and changes. It will not work for a backup of >> your complete system, and not for Windows itself. it might not take care >> of all backup issues. But it will do for things like your screen reader >> profile and personal files. >> >> And if you are not comfortable in writing batch files, I do have a tiny >> script here, that I developed a number of years ago. It will let you set >> up a list of files and locations, that can be copied in one go. It is >> written outside WinEyes, meaning it can be run from anywhere, and with >> whichever screen reader you prefer. Whoever wants a copy, can contact me >> off-list, and I'd send it over. >> >> Or, you could of course use an Online service for backing up, like >> OneDrive or Dropbox. Unfortunately, online services are not as private >> as they want you to believe, so keep that in mind. In case you have a >> backup media, you might want a backup client, that automatically will >> keep track of any changes. For one, Casper will be a choice to consider. >> Good thing about such solution, is that you can back up your whole >> system. even the Operativ System. Have used it a good deal, and >> benefitted from it at the latest this last week, when my system got >> screwed up, and I could simply swap disks, and be up running in no time. >> >> OK, long message, and not sure it helped you much. But to be of more >> assistance, I think we need to know more specifically what is your >> issue, in its details. >> >> >> David >> >> On 2/26/2020 8:23 AM, peter Chin wrote: >>> es, the Window-Eyes for office still works for Windows 8.1 which I am >>> using. However, within the last few days it has been behaving >>> strangely. My mouse keys don't work properly and Window_eyes keeps >>> reading other parts of the screen, especially the areas where the >>> mouse is sitting. Any suggestions as to how to resolve the problem >>> will be much appreciated. >>> -----Original Message----- From: David via Talk >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:12 AM >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>> Cc: David >>> Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >>> >>> Interesting. I just had a quick look. Going to >>> >>> gwmicro.com >>> >>> It sure looked like the site is still up. Yet, I did find nowhere to >>> download anything but some tutorials, and a number of videos. Well, and >>> then the App Central. Why I still wonder exactly which website the >>> assumed demo version would have been attempted downloaded from. >>> >>> If the user still knows the address where the download was attempted, >>> either retry the download and see if the file comes out with a more >>> trusty size, or try search the net for another download. Of course, >>> someone might have a demo sitting around, Does the Office version even >>> work any longer? Or is all that lane closed, after the cooperation >>> discontinued? I did not have any demos here, only my purchased versions. >>> >>> David >>> >>> On 2/25/2020 12:53 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote: >>>> Actually the website is still online and it says 2020 AI Squared. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com] >>> On Behalf Of Loy Green via Talk >>>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 3:46 PM >>>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>>> Cc: Loy Green >>>> Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >>>> >>>> That site has not been active for a couple of years since Freedom >>> Scientific >>>> purchased ZoomText and Window Eyes. >>>> Window Eyes is no longer available unless you get it from a former >>>> user.----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Armando Vias via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> >>>> To: <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> >>>> Cc: "Armando Vias" <av...@theblindadvocate.net> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 5:19 PM >>>> Subject: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hey all. >>>>> >>>>> This is my first post. >>>>> >>>>> For some reason, I can’t install the Window Eyes Program. It says >>> that it >>>>> is 83 bytes. When I try to install it, my computer says that it is >>>>> corrupted. I am using a 64-bit version of Windows 10. What should I >>>>> do? >>>>> >>>>> Armando >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> — >>>>> Armando Vias >>>>> Owner of The Blind Advocate Network >>>>> Website: https://theblindadvocate.net >>>>> Phone: (404) 4803436 >>>>> Email: av...@theblindadvocate.net >>>>> Like my page on Facebook: >>> https://www.facebook.com/theblindadvocatenetwork >>>>> Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/theblndadvn >>>>> “Getting advocacy results for the blind.” >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>>>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>>> >>>>> For membership options, visit >>>>> >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/loyrg2845%40gmail.com. >>> >>> >>>>> For subscription options, visit >>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>>> List archives can be found at >>>>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/skyt%40shaw.ca. >>> >>> >>>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>>> >>>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/trailerdavid%40hotmail.com. >>> >>> >>>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the >>> author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. >>> >>> For membership options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/peter.chinpk%40gmail.com. >>> >>> For subscription options, visit >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> List archives can be found at >>> http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com >>> . >> >> . > > . _______________________________________________ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
