Hello David,
Thanks so much for your suggestions. I will try to answer your questions as
best I can
First of all, about my system. No, I have never reinstalled Windows since it
was set up more than a year ago. The only programs I have uninstalled of any
significance were my Collins dictionary and my Word Web dictionary. I am the
only person using this computer and to my knowledge I have never clicked on
any offers of new programs. I use the network icon on the desktop as an
example but, surprisingly, I haven't heard the word "Network" being
repeated. I just chose the word out of the blue as an example. The repeated
words could be part of the message or word file I am typing, or it could be
words at the top or bottom of the screen if my mouse is in that position. I
always disconnect the LAN cable from my computer whenever I go off line. My
Desktop computer doesn't have a wireless connection. However, you might have
a point about something trying to update. Java has been trying to get me to
update but I recently abandoned the update halfway because I didn't quite
understand what it was requiring me to do. I do diskclean at least once a
day but I haven't used my C Cleaner for some time so I think I had better
try that. I always avoid scheduling anything like antivirus or defragging
programs, preferring to do these tasks manually when I have the time. In
Windows 8, they don't use the word "Defrag" but "Optimize". I optimize my
drives once inn a while even though I am told by Windows that my drives do
not need optimizing. My antivirus program is the Windows Defender provided
by Microsoft. I don't consider it a very effective antivirus program so I am
ver wary about visiting strange websites. My computer technician did put on
AVG for me but I told him to uninstall it as AVG has become rather
inaccessible. I don't think he did a very good job of it as I still find
traces of the program on my computer and that could be another source of my
troubles. On the other hand, why should it only cause trouble recently? Just
for your info, since I reported this strange behaviour, my mouse has been
behaving properly, and the unwanted repetitions have stopped.
Thanks again and I am definitely going to clean up my computer with C
Cleaner tomorrow as I have to go out this evening.
-----Original Message-----
From: David
Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 12:43 PM
To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Solving Mouse Trap; (was: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes)
Well, Peter,
This really sounds like a nut.
If something like you describe is repeated over and over, like:
Desktop, Network, Desktop, Network;
I am almost ready to think this is due to some background service
attempting to start, and likely not being able to perform what it wants.
That could be,
some sort of update,
an unstabil network connection,
Things like a disk Clean-up or Defragmentation,
Scheduled scanning jobs from your Anti-Virus;
or whatever else.
Seemingly, the software is trying to do its job, fails, and pops back to
the Desktop - determines that it wants to try again, also this time
failing, and returning to the desktop. The screen reader is doing its
job, in picking up that something is going on, and reading out to you
what it can manage, before next operation is plunging in. Since this
retrying is rapidly going on, the screen reader might not have time to
read out all the dialogs, and you only hear the window titles spoken. GW
were asked several years ago, if a user-activated delaying filter could
be implemented, that would leave the screen reader time enough to
recognize and speak out dialogs like this, or even determine to skip
them altogether. Their reply in short, was that they did not see it as
anything useful. Another screen reader which I used before WinEyes, did
have such capability, which I found useful many a time. And NVDA seems
to be slow enough, or perhaps more like agressive enough, to pick up all
the info and take its time to read it aloud.
Now for a moment, let's imagine my assumption is right. When the
software has kept attempting a preset number of times, it pops an error
message on you. That message is not visible to WinEyes, like we have
talked about earlier. This invisible window is trapping your mouse; and
you, are pulling your hair. Yes, a wild guess, but not totally out of
the blue either.
Again, I suggest trying an alternative screen reader for a little. This
might just prove helpful, as another screen reader might pick up what is
going on, and read out some info that will point you to the real nest of
your trouble. Try install NVDA. Restart your computer, and when it is
all ready, turn off WinEyes. For instance by hitting Ctrl-Insert-F4, and
then Enter on the OK button. Then Start NVDA, by default Alt-Ctrl-N.
Work on your computer as normal, writing some stuff, checking your
email, browsing some familiar website, or whatever you typically are
doing on your computer. Try do some familiar job, that you do not have
to deal with a load of screen reader specific keystrokes. NVDA is
different, but it is not all that different, in straight forward
operation of the computer. One main thing to be aware, is that NVDA does
not operate the mouse, the way WinEyes does. So don't perform mouse
intensive activity, and at least do not expect same result as you are
used to. Our goal is first of all, to see if NVDA wants to pick up any
screen info when your computer starts to play jokes on you.
Peter, is this a fairly newly installed system? Or, is it an old one
that has been installed, updated and reinstalled who knows how many
times. I am just asking, because loads of installing and uninstalling,
upgraded and fooled around with systems, they get messed up over time.
In such cases, a thorough clean-up might be adviced. Things like
CCleaner could be one lane to go.
Are you aware whether you have any extra featuring app or software
installed. For instance, some sales websites offer you to install what
is named a "toolbar", that will remind you of things like when an offer
comes on, or when it is time for you to pay attension to the auction you
are bidding on. Toolbars could have many other functions, so these were
just to samplify. Trouble about this kind of stuff, is that it in its
basic is to be named Adware, but due to the user himself having accepted
it to be installed, they claim that it will not categorize as malware.
Still, it could activate itself, whenever it thinks it is supposed to.
Hope you don't mind me reminding every reader of this thread, never to
click on anything that offers you a ton, without knowing that you want
it, and are OK with the activity involved. I do not mean to say this is
what goes on with your system, just mentioning that this could be
something to consider.
Do you have any anti ware installed? Anti-Virus, Anti-Malware,
Anti-Spyware? If so, run a full scan on your computer, even with each
and everyone of the anti-packages you might own. Alternatively, use an
online scanner. This just to make sure we have uprooted any weeds.
Since you particularly mentioned the speech saying
Network
when the issue comes up, I do wonder if your network connection is going
crazy. First, if you are on a wired connection, make sure that all
cables are tightly and snugly fit. That includes the cable from your
computer to the modem, and the one from the modem to the wall socket.
Even the ones on any router or other hooked up units you might have.
Are you on a wireless network, make sure that the cables from the modem
to the wall, and to the router if applicable, are all tightly fit. Your
wireless never gets better than what the cables dictate. If you know how
to, maybe try resetting your wireless connection, or even changing the
password. Even cross the yard, between different apartmens, and
sometimes surprisingly long distance, others might be able to use your
wireless connection. Have you any other people in your dwelling who are
using their wireless units while you are on the computer? Or, have you
recently refurnished your home, and now something like your radio or TV
is troubling the wireless signals. It all could disturb the flow, and
cause your computer to rapidly go on- and offline. Had some of that
experience myself, many years ago. Did not understand what was going on,
until I called the Internet Provider, and the tech guy told me that my
internet had frequently gone on and off for the last few hours.
Of course, if you want to play the full game of tracing - you could
disconnect from the network. Disconnect the cable from your computer, or
turn off the wireless switch if it has one. If nothing else, turn off
your modem - unless that would cause inconvinience to you in any other
way. Then start your computer all from start. That is, do not wake it up
from hibernation or sleeping mode. Give it what we name a "cold boot".
Now perform some normal offline activity for a period of time, long
enough that you are sure the issue normally would have shown up. See if
the issue does poke out its nose. You could of course lengthen the to-do
list by also going to Network setup on your computer, and turn off the
network there, just to inform the computer that it most definitely could
save itself the trouble in attempting to connect to any network.
Peter, I am aware that the thing you are facing might not be network
related at all. I just spent a moment on advicing what to do, so as to
shelter out one possibility. Is it always saying "network", when the
unwanted speech goes on, or does it randomly give other messages. one
thing could be to make some notes whenever the unwanted speech comes on,
over a day or so, and let us know what it has been saying. Know that is
a lot of extra trouble, and not sure if it will take us much further,
but do give it some consideration.
If you recently had someone fooling with your system, like some
servicing personel, grandchildren or friends that wanted to help you out
- be aware that they forcefully, or totally unknowingly, might have
turned on some stuff that could be causing the issue. Maybe because they
found it useful, and did not realize what trouble it would be for you.
All wild guesses. And probably you feel more confused than ever.
Troubleshooting could be quite a go, and specially so when we do not see
all the glittery, flashing and colorful nignags that sighted people so
greatly enjoy now aday on their screens. Unfortunately often such stuff
is more of a trouble to the screen readers.
On 2/29/2020 3:55 AM, peter Chin wrote:
Hello David,
My mouse problems can show up at start-up or at any time afterwards.
Trouble is, I don't know exactly when it happens after start-up unless I
happen to want to use the mouse and I discover that the mouse is not
working. When the mouse is not working, the cursor usually appears to be
working fine. Whether the mouse is working or not, unwanted parts of
the screen can suddenly start reading, often repeating many times, such
as "Network, desktop, network, Desktop, network, desktop" and so on.
At the moment as I am writing this reply, the mouse seems to be
working alright.
I realise that this kind of unpredictable behaviour is difficult to
solve and I really appreciate your efforts to help.
Thanks a lot.
-----Original Message----- From: David
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 7:40 PM
To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes
Peter,
Let's see if I get you right. Please correct me where I am off-tracked.
You start your computer, and the screen reader. For the most part, it
starts out as expected, with all mouse movements functioning. As you
keep working, all the sudden, and apparently without any further notice,
your mouse goes for a garden-party, and all the fun it leaves you is the
word "blank" when you try to control it. Did we get it right this far?
This behavior takes place whether you are in one or the other
application.. You mentioned WLM and Windows Explorer. But are they the
only places the thing happens, or does it happen in pretty much any
other software as well? And, do you have an idea, whether this takes
place after a given amount of runtime. Does it typically happen after
say five minutes working time, or is it totally out of any time frame.
Lastly, does it disappear after a while?
At this point, I will have to do a couple of wild guesses. See if that
takes us anywhere. What might be an extra question is, do you have any
other screen reader installed. That is, do you for instance have NVDA on
your computer. Sometimes this can prove a beneficial thing. NVDA has in
a number of cases, proven to be a bit more agressive in grabbing info
from the screen. And due to NVDA still being developed, it keeps up with
modern screens in a way that WinEyes not always live up to. Put it the
way, that NVDA does a quick go and get what it gets - whilst WinEyes
does go about it a bit more thoroughly, but only get so much out of the
job. Both being beneficial in their own ways. And here might be one of
the cases when the more tools will give us the better job done.
What I do get from the description you gave, the way I read it, seems to
me you have some kind of a popup window showing up on your screen. A
popup that WinEyes might not notice, but still gets crazy about. At
least your mouse might enjoy it. Such popups could be notifications
coming from other software, who needs a permission to update. Windows 7
and up, introduced us to a new measure of security, in the User Acount
Control - which will ask your permission before performing any
deep-going action on your computer, like an update or bigger altering of
your software. Now, what if your anti-virus, your email program or any
other piece of software needs to install an update. This update is of
some major concern to the operativ system, and it will popup a message
asking if you are comfortable with this software's meddling with your
system. You likely have seen this kind of message, when attempting to
install new software. OK, sometimes software have built-in popups on
their own. I am not a WLM user, so cannot speak for that one, but it
could be it has some extra fun in popping out a message window every now
and then.
Thing about such popups, is that they are not always easy to see for
WinEyes. And they go hide themselves behind any other stuff. Still the
mouse might stick with them. NVDA, though, has proven to be useful on my
system, in cases like that. It might pick up popups even when they
appear, and quite often alt-tabbing through the list of open software,
NVDA will report if it finds any open popups. If things like you
describe happens to me, I quickly press the hotkey to start NVDA, and
once it comes up, I might Alt-Tab my way around. Sometimes just starting
NVDA, and it automatically discovers and reads out the popup to me.
Funny thing is, when NVDA is active, I can get WinEyes to focus on the
popup and maybe even interact with it, something that is out of question
with WinEyes running on its own. Drawback of it all, of course is, that
you will have to deal with both screen readers chattering simultaneously
for the moment you have NVDA loaded. But you just need it for the time
of discovering what is going on. Once you have done what you need to do,
you just close down NVDA, and back to WinEyes.
The other thing that could be worth a try, is for a while to turn off
all apps in WinEyes. I am not aware which app would cause your trouble,
but it might just be worth the go.
Does your system give any pling or plung, when this misbehavior happens.
I do not mean when you press the mouse keys, but just in general. often
when a popup occurs, it might be linked with some kind of a warning
sound or tiny jingle. This to alert even sighted people, that the
computer is requesting some extra user interaction.
Again, wild guesses. Your issue might have a hundred other reasons, and
likely other listers will have good tips here. Sometimes other software
does take over the key control, kicking the screen reader out of
business. But since you tell this started a few days back, and with no
unusual activity leading up to it, I hold that to be less likely in your
case.
What comes to mind though, is for you to make sure your WinEyes has the
right keyboard layout. Please go to your WinEyes Control Panel. In the
tree of menu choices, focus
Keyboard.
Open it by hitting the Right Arrow. Now scroll down to the last of the
choices, which should say something like
Keyboard Layout.
Use your tab-key once.
In the list, choose
Window-Eyes Default.
Again tab once, and hit Enter on the button that says
Activate Layout.
Since your screen reader behaves OK in some cases, I hold this keyboard
layout very little likely, but still does not hurt to make sure things
are rightfully set up. Feel free to get back with your findings, and let
the community know if you still have no luck. Unfortunately, I have seen
certain cases when a popup blocked screen reader activity, and there was
no other way than to have two eyes interact. HP systems did have a
tendency on this, when they performed updates to the system dependent
software. But don't despair all yet, a few more workarounds could be
tried, if the issue proves to be a popup. First let's discern if that is
the case.
As for my backup script, I will get it ready for you. I wrote it for my
own usage, numerous years ago. I'll brush it up, write a quick little
get-started guide, and send it over to you. Might take a week's time,
but i'll keep it in mind. Smiles.
And in case you co't own NVDA, get it free from:
nvda-project.org
David
On 2/27/2020 5:09 AM, peter Chin wrote:
Hello David,
Thank you so much for your very extensive reply. Yes, I must admit I
didn't give enough details abou my problems. I was in a bit of a hurry
as I had several other things to be done.
First, about the mouse keys. Sometimes when I am on the desktop or in
my user folder, moving the mouse with the mouse keys does not read
anything. If I try to read current icon or line, or if I move the
mouse up or down or left to right or the other way, WE just says
"blank". lefgt or right clicking on what I think should be the icon or
folder I moved the mouse to does have some effect. This can also
happen when I am in WLM. Sometimes, however, the mouse keys move as
expected. Trouble is, I don't know when and why this happens.
Restarting WE or restarting the computer does not solve the problem
when the mouse keys do not work. I only noticed this strange behaviour
a few days ago. I was not messking around with any settings at the
time but had just started my computer. Whether the moue keys
areworking or not, WE may just start parts of the screen I am not
interested in.
As for backing up, I don't know how to back up my C drive but I have a
copy of my WE Defult folder and I have all my data files backed up. I
am not very good at writing batch files, especially for Windows, so
would be very glad to have your batch file which you mentioned.
Thanks in advance.
-----Original Message----- From: David
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 8:15 PM
To: peter Chin ; Window-Eyes Discussion List
Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes
Your mouse keys do not work as expected? Sorry to hear that. Yet, I am
afraid i do not know what exactly you mean. Is it something going on in
all applications, or is it only (at least mainly) happening in some
particular piece of software.? Are you aware when it all started, and if
so, do you have a clue what you did just prior to this behavior taking
place?
Reason I am assking, is that it might point us in the direction of
picking up a solution for you. In case you have made any updates, played
around with some settings, or installed some extra software or apps - it
might be a place to start helping you out. Could you explain, please,
what it is you expect, and what does not work?
It has been a known fact, that the mouse sometimes gets stuck in a
position on the screen. Usually this would mean one of the corners. And
why this happens might have as many answers as there are questions.
Still, whenever something show up in that posistion - like some status
message, for instance - WinEyes will read it out to you. That is because
the screen reader is doing its job, however strange that might sound.
See, the screen reader is such constructed, that it will keep an eye on
your screen, and let you know whenever some info shows up, in places
that you tell is of special interest. Placing your mouse, is one way of
telling the screen reader to watch out for updated info. Now, if your
mouse runs over and dig itself a new hole, wherever on your screen, the
screen reader will track the mouse, and determine that likely you enjoy
to have it chattering everything that the mouse "sniffs" in its stuck
position. No, I am not trying to be jokie. This is the real fact. The
big issue, and main solution, will be to have the mouse dragged loose
from its stubborn place, and tell it to behave like good tiny mice are
supposed to.
Exactly why your mouse misbehaves, will be the thing we need to guess
and play around.
Are you on a desktop, or a laptop computer? If on a laptop, could it be
that you accidentially are activating the touchpad when operating the
computer. Some computers can turn off the touchpad, and if that is the
case with yours, you might have ended up turning it back on - meaning
that every time you place your hands on the laptop, you are in the risk
of swiping the sensors of the pad, and the mouse will run like as if you
had let the cat into the room. Solutions then, could be to make sure to
deactivate the touchpad, adjust the sensitivity, or whatever features
your computer offers you. Or, simply connect a USB mouse, and hide it in
the very rear of your desk, that you don't ever get in touch with it.
Do you have the habit of once in a while backing up your system? or at
least the WinEyes profile folder? If so, probably one quick fix would be
to simply copy your backup into the profile folder - thereby rolling
your screen reader back to a point of well-behaving.
If you do not own a bakup hard drive, there are a few suggestions for
regularly being able to back up your screen reader profile, along with
other personal files and settings. First of all, the WinEyes folder
usually do not get very big. So even a cheap memory card of any size
from 1GB and up, will suffice. That is, if your computer has a memory
card slot. Otherwise, USB pen drives, again from 1GB and up, will be
something to consider. Dig deep in your desk drawer, and see if you have
some old hardware that can be put to good use here. And what if you
simply don't have either cards or pen drives? Make for yourself a
subfolder on your main hard disk. Name it something like:
My Backup.
Simply copy any stuff from all over your hard disk, that you want to
make an extra backup of, into this local space. It might prove helpful,
since you don't have to connect and disconnect anything, whenever you
want a backup. You could even make a tiny batch file, that sits on your
desktop, and whenever being called, would back up files from several
locations. Then run it once a week, or every time you think you have
made important updates and changes. It will not work for a backup of
your complete system, and not for Windows itself. it might not take care
of all backup issues. But it will do for things like your screen reader
profile and personal files.
And if you are not comfortable in writing batch files, I do have a tiny
script here, that I developed a number of years ago. It will let you set
up a list of files and locations, that can be copied in one go. It is
written outside WinEyes, meaning it can be run from anywhere, and with
whichever screen reader you prefer. Whoever wants a copy, can contact me
off-list, and I'd send it over.
Or, you could of course use an Online service for backing up, like
OneDrive or Dropbox. Unfortunately, online services are not as private
as they want you to believe, so keep that in mind. In case you have a
backup media, you might want a backup client, that automatically will
keep track of any changes. For one, Casper will be a choice to consider.
Good thing about such solution, is that you can back up your whole
system. even the Operativ System. Have used it a good deal, and
benefitted from it at the latest this last week, when my system got
screwed up, and I could simply swap disks, and be up running in no time.
OK, long message, and not sure it helped you much. But to be of more
assistance, I think we need to know more specifically what is your
issue, in its details.
David
On 2/26/2020 8:23 AM, peter Chin wrote:
es, the Window-Eyes for office still works for Windows 8.1 which I am
using. However, within the last few days it has been behaving
strangely. My mouse keys don't work properly and Window_eyes keeps
reading other parts of the screen, especially the areas where the
mouse is sitting. Any suggestions as to how to resolve the problem
will be much appreciated.
-----Original Message----- From: David via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:12 AM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: David
Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes
Interesting. I just had a quick look. Going to
gwmicro.com
It sure looked like the site is still up. Yet, I did find nowhere to
download anything but some tutorials, and a number of videos. Well, and
then the App Central. Why I still wonder exactly which website the
assumed demo version would have been attempted downloaded from.
If the user still knows the address where the download was attempted,
either retry the download and see if the file comes out with a more
trusty size, or try search the net for another download. Of course,
someone might have a demo sitting around, Does the Office version even
work any longer? Or is all that lane closed, after the cooperation
discontinued? I did not have any demos here, only my purchased
versions.
David
On 2/25/2020 12:53 AM, Sky Mundell via Talk wrote:
Actually the website is still online and it says 2020 AI Squared.
-----Original Message-----
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+skyt=shaw...@lists.window-eyes.com]
On Behalf Of Loy Green via Talk
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 3:46 PM
To: Window-Eyes Discussion List
Cc: Loy Green
Subject: Re: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes
That site has not been active for a couple of years since Freedom
Scientific
purchased ZoomText and Window Eyes.
Window Eyes is no longer available unless you get it from a former
user.----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando Vias via Talk" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
To: <talk@lists.window-eyes.com>
Cc: "Armando Vias" <av...@theblindadvocate.net>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2020 5:19 PM
Subject: Can’t Install Free Trial of Window Eyes
Hey all.
This is my first post.
For some reason, I can’t install the Window Eyes Program. It says
that it
is 83 bytes. When I try to install it, my computer says that it is
corrupted. I am using a 64-bit version of Windows 10. What should I
do?
Armando
—
Armando Vias
Owner of The Blind Advocate Network
Website: https://theblindadvocate.net
Phone: (404) 4803436
Email: av...@theblindadvocate.net
Like my page on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/theblindadvocatenetwork
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/theblndadvn
“Getting advocacy results for the blind.”
_______________________________________________
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