Elvin: let's see if you have b**** to copy this place-name: http://www.teara.govt.nz/NewZealanders/MaoriNewZealanders/CanoeTraditions/6/ENZ-Resources/Standard/7/en Lucas
________________________________ De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] en nombre de elvin ibbotson Enviado el: lun 28/04/2008 18:10 Para: talk@openstreetmap.org Asunto: Re: [OSM-talk] namespaces and copyright It seems my little rant about what I perceive as an unnecessarily precious approach to copyright issues ruffled a few feathers. I think everyone's plumage is spruce again now, so I just want to respond to some of the helpful guidance received. You may yet have to come across a streetname deliberately spelled wrongly or in fact any of the other possible easter eggs introduced by commercial mapmakers just to protect database rights. Using street signs and doing general surveing on the ground is the only safe option. --- Dirk-Lüder "Deelkar" Kreie Correct! I have never actually seen one, but I'm sure they exist. However, I can make my own spelling mistakes without their help. I hope people didn't assume I'm doing all my mapping from the A-Z. I do actually go out there collecting tracks with my GPS, photographing things, naming waypoints and even remembering the odd street name. Further discussion on this topic is probably best relegated to the legal-talk list: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legal-talk If not, I would like to see them sue. This statement is exactly the *opposite* of what the OSM Foundation probably feels. Lawsuits cost money. OSM doesn't have the kind of resources that allow it to consider defending a suit a reasonable path at this time, and thus, it takes the 'moral high ground' by avoiding all the issues involved and playing it completely safe, as is the best position for a project of this nature to take. --- Christopher Schmidt also... I think this is generally the point: most people would prefer they /didn't/ sue. Even if their case didn't really have a leg to stand on, you still end up having to defend it which is more hassle than it's worth if you can simply avoid the situation in the first place. The same goes for taking street names or climbing route information from sources which claim copyright. As for whether copying the names from maps is legal, well there's plenty of opinion on this from lawyers and non-lawyers alike. Database right tends to come into it too. I get the feeling YMMV. OSM policy has always been to keep to the safe side of the argument and only allow sources which are guaranteed to be permitted. Anyway, follow ups to the legal-talk list please. --- Dave Stubbs I tried subscribing to the legal list but something seems to be broken, so I'm back here polluting the talk list - sorry! Here ("I would like to see them sue") I was using what I thought was a widely-used and equally widely-understood device, colloquially known as 'irony' (though I'm sure a grammarian would correct that). I did not actually mean it literally. I like OSM and I really hope it doesn't get sued (and here I'm not being ironic). I'm all for staying on the right side of the law even if it means I might not go to heaven when I die. If anyone ever accuses me of copying a street name from a book or a map I will deny ever having set eyes on said book or map or having asked anyone who might have seen it. There is a danger I might occasionally have to lie, but it's better than getting sued, eh?. To be really safe, I'm going to start looking carefully at the street signs for copyright notices. (sort of irony again). On the other hand, on a rock face there are no signs - things can become much more subjective. Climbing (difficulty) grades, for example, are estimates - there is no hard fast rule about what makes a route a specific grade. A bunch of people climb it and make a guestimate on how hard they think it is. --- Steve Hill My original post was prompted by one about climbing route names from Chris Hill. You guys take your surnames too seriously. It sounds like this climbing malarky is as anarchic as OSM. You should have committees to grade climbs and approve route names and climbing police to ensure no-one ever uses a copyrighted route name without proper attribution. elvin ibbotson
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