> The tag page: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:foot > > refers to the > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access > page that you mentioned.
This then would seem to make foot=yes unavailable as a description of the physical nature of the way and to duplicate foot=designated. What would we then use to describe the physical nature? Similarly if bicycle=yes (even if we already have an option of bicycle=designated) means that bicycles are legally allowed on a way then how do we say whether a way is suitable for bicycles? Do we resort to using surface= or even smoothness= ? Although custom seems to dictate that foot=yes etc. are legal descriptors, consistency and avoidance of duplication would still suggest =yes for physical and = designated for legal. Perhaps the answer is to continue to use access=designated rather than foot=designated - see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Ddesignated Bottom line still seems to be that confusion reigns! > Things are further complicated by landowners diverting paths (sometimes legally, sometimes not) and new trails such as > former railway lines for which "who is currently invited to use the trail" is clear, but the permanent legal status > isn't. Where the diverted route is legal I will tag that foot=yes ((as I am so far sticking to the custom of this having legal status meaning) and add a note for information if this differs from what is shown on the OS map; if the original route is still walkable I will tag that foot=path and perhaps add a note. Where the diversion is illegal I will tag the diversion as foot=path and add a note; if the correct route is walkable I will tag that foot=yes and perhaps add a note; if the correct route is obstructed I will map the route up to the obstruction, map and tag the obstruction and add a note. We have several converted former railway lines in Cheshire and I have been in discussion with colleagues on these as all are multi-use although priorities differ. In one case the county council has designated the old railway as a route for riders - but cyclists and walkers have also adopted the route; legally the use is only permissive for every class of user as it is not a right of way; here I would recommend tagging as highway=track plus tracktype=grade1 plus foot / bicycle / horse = permissive; cyclists tend to prefer to tag as highway=cycleway but riders and walkers don't like this very much (!) so I prefer my solution as less judgmental! By contrast, in another case SusTrans has fully paved the track and designated it as part of a national cycleway; again the legal status if permissive for cyclists and walkers (don't know about riders on this one); my first inclination was to tag as highway=track, tracktype=grade1, surface=paved, foot / bicycle = yes; I have been persuaded by the cycling community to tag as highway=cycleway, foot / bicycle = yes. The bottom line is that confusion reigns! > Finally - a question. How widespread is the use of the yellow / blue / red scheme described on UK_public_rights_of_way? > I've seen it southwest of London and maybe parts of Oxfordshire, but don't recall it elsewhere. Excellent question - I had not thought of it because I am so familiar with the scheme (as one of those who actually put the waymarks in place!) - but it does give clear information as to legal status in England and Wales. The scheme is a recommended one that extends over the whole of England and Wales and, in my experience at least, is quite widely and fairly consistently used. Two broad types of waymark are concerned: 1. Formal quasi-legal waymarks that are fully authorised by the Highway Authority (e.g. the County Council). These usually (but not always) carry the name of the Highway Authority (e.g. Essex County Council); they may (but usually do not) carry words describing the legal status (e.g. "Public Footpath"); they should not carry other wording that indicates a named or lettered trail. Precise designs vary a bit. 2. Informal waymarks with no legal standing but are 'permitted'. These should never obscure Type 1 waymarks. They normally carry a letter ("B" for paths recommended and maintained in parish B), acronym (NCW for the North Cheshire Way) or trail name (Delamere Way). In both cases the colour scheme should be the same (although Type 2 waymarks can be rather inconsistent). The colour scheme indicates legal status; any colour other than white implies a public right of way (though yellow is often misused on Type 2 waymarks even where the way is not a public right of way). White: permissive route - should carry the word "permissive" somewhere - not a public right of way. Unfortunately yellow weathers to white - so some "white" waymarks are really yellow! Look for the word permissive. Yellow: public footpath - i.e. a public right of way on foot but not for higher classes of user. Blue: public bridleway - i.e. a public right of way on horseback and on foot but not for higher classes of user. Cyclists also have (but only since 1968) a legal right of use unless this has been removed by local over-riding regulation (local regulation can only over-ride for cyclists), but they must give way to walkers and riders. Red: "byway open to all traffic" (aka "BOAT") - a misleading term but the correct legal one. This is a "carriageway" and thus a right of way for "vehicular traffic" but one that is used primarily for the purposes for which footpaths and bridleways are used (i.e. by walkers and horse-riders). There are clear rights for walkers, horse-riders and probably cyclists. However, the type of vehicular traffic and the conditions of use are defined on an ad hoc basis for each BOAT and it cannot be assumed that any vehicle can use the way at any time and in any manner! Plum: "restricted byway" - a new term that replaces the former (ill-defined and no longer extant) "road used as public path" or RUPP). A public right of way on foot, on horseback or leading a horse and for vehicles that are NOT mechanically propelled (i.e. pedal cyclists and horse-drawn vehicles but NOT motor cars, motor cycles, quad bikes, motorised scooters, etc.). Like anything else that is created and managed by humans the scheme is not always applied perfectly (!) A common failing is the use of yellow waymarks where another colour should be used - simply because stocks of yellow ones tend to be larger and more readily available! Waymarking problems should be reported to your local Highway Authority and/or to your local walking group. Hope this helps. Should I add an abbreviated form to the wiki - perhaps on the mis-named UK Public Rights of Way page? Mike Harris -----Original Message----- From: Someoneelse [mailto:li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk] Sent: 23 February 2009 19:55 To: Mike Harris Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] amenity=doctor or amenity=doctors ? [tagging] Either my memory is playing up (entirely possible) or the Wiki, although still confusing*, is actually clearer than it used to be on this. The tag page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:foot refers to the http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access page that you mentioned. which makes it clear that it's about the legal right of access rather than the physical possibility of doing so. Unfortunately, UK_public_rights_of_way doesn't refer to either of these or make it clear what the "yes" in "foot=yes; highway=footway" actually means (although "UK_Countryside_mapping" does explain "yes"). A significant minority of the footpaths that I add are actually "foot=unknown" since although it's a path that "everyone uses" there's actually nothing on the ground that says that it is a public footpath - just a hole in a hedge and a muddy track across a field. Things are further complicated by landowners diverting paths (sometimes legally, sometimes not) and new trails such as former railway lines for which "who is currently invited to use the trail" is clear, but the permanent legal status isn't. *thinking about it, read without the UK- (actually England and Wales-) specific pages, and approached from the perspective of adding what's on the ground first, and then adding what is known about access rights, it actually makes much more sense. Finally - a question. How widespread is the use of the yellow / blue / red scheme described on UK_public_rights_of_way? I've seen it southwest of London and maybe parts of Oxfordshire, but don't recall it elsewhere. _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk