On 26 March 2010 11:39, Gregory <nomoregra...@googlemail.com> wrote: > I think you would need a separate database for the collection. > Then every week or so you have a rule that estimates the access point > location and says where a few people have seen this network, and it has been > seen recently, then add it to OSM and update your db with the OSM node id.
Yep, I was thinking of just using a flat file for the collection (published to the world) then a database to keep track of the nodes which have been imported (node IDs, last known positions etc) > Some information might be best kept in your database, some might be good in > OSM. It is helpful to be able to add the osm tags operator (e.g. T-Mobile, > BT OpenWhatsit, or LocalTon Free Wifi), url, and maybe something to say if > it is free or not. I was thinking I'd avoid the BT OpenZone and other non-free networks, they personally irritate me and there are hundreds of thousands of them (I think they piggyback other people's connections). If the tool can log in via the wifi and make a connection to my server, then it's a good one. > How do you deal with nodes(tags and/or location) being changed in the OSM > data not by your tool? In this case I think we can assume that humans are always better at setting locations, but software is better at SSIDs and other machiney things. I guess just don't update the location in future once a user has moved it (maybe > What if your tool adds a node which is already there? That's a bit harder. I guess it would need to search for both the ESSID and the SSID before adding a node, and be aware that the node ID might change (ie be deleted by a user) > I know of a village that has a free wifi setup (by residents) that I would > like to know the points of but you have to give an e-mail address to 'log > in'. I suppose I would have to login and then use your tool if I wanted it > recorded. I suppose you'd have to add this one manually, the tool would see the open network, connect try to post data to my collection page but be redirected to the login page. It would then assume that this network is a private/pay one and locally blacklist the ESSID so it doesn't connect multiple times to pinpoint the location. > I think a possible objection is like the legally-grey use of open networks. > Home routers usually come open as default(it aids installation), you have > not been authorised to use them but maybe the settings being left open is > authorisation(so you tell yourself). Well more worse that you taking their > bandwidth, is you plotting a big X on their house (yeah, I know their fault > for not closing the network). I can only speak for the UK, but all the ISP provided routers I've seen in the past few years come with a key printed on the bottom of them, plus you have to actually press a button on the device to authorize it. The open wifi anarchy of the recent past doesn't seem to apply to home users anymore. I guess it could just stop updating the node once a user has deleted it from OSM's database, but I wouldn't remove it from my source list. Gaz > > On 26 March 2010 03:34, Gaz Davidson <g...@bitplane.net> wrote: >> >> On 25 March 2010 19:13, Claudius <claudiu...@gmx.de> wrote: >> > Am 25.03.2010 15:09, Gaz Davidson: >> >> (...) at some later time the positions of all >> >> known access points can be estimated and imported into OSM's database. >> > >> > I think WiFi are too temporary a feature to be added to the main OSM >> > database. Why not keep it in a seperate project database? >> >> I suppose I could keep it separate, but it sucks to have all kinds of >> city geo-data split across multiple databases in different formats. It >> makes using them more awkward. Also, I've not seen any evidence that a >> large number of open wireless networks are temporary, unless you mean >> that the technology ages fast? All the ones I've found are >> deliberately open and belong to businesses, at least in the UK it's no >> longer the open wifi free-for-all that it was several years ago (all >> new routers come with WEP enabled by default, access points are used >> until the hardware dies). >> >> Perhaps store the last seen date, then we can auto-purge them from the >> database. Maybe have the site collect complete user traces so that we >> can see when people went past a now dead hotspot (though users may not >> like this, specially if the data is PD!) >> >> > Besides: Nice idea. But will it be needed in times of 3G access? >> >> Well, you could say the same about amenity=phone_box, I can't remember >> the last time I used one of those. Open wireless networks are of >> interest to me personally, probably lots of other people too. When I'm >> out and about and realise I need a 700MB file it doesn't make sense to >> use 3G for this. On my old prepay plan it would have cost me £14 to >> download 700MB, on my current contract it would eat a week's worth of >> data allowance. >> >> Gaz >> >> _______________________________________________ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > > > -- > Gregory > o...@livingwithdragons.com > http://www.livingwithdragons.com > _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
