Begging your pardon, but I was quoting (hence the quotes) the term used by a previous poster. I was just suggesting another ORM framework to explore if they didn't already have an investment in Hibernate. If Hibernate works great for you, then continue using it. It just seems to me that this list gets lots of the same Hibernate questions (see the "Hibernate Long term session" thread as recently as this week) about issues that I've not experienced with Cayenne. Options are good and so is competition.
Anyway, have a nice weekend. /dev/mrg -----Original Message----- From: Paul Cantrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11:50 AM To: Tapestry users Subject: Re: Back to Tapestry after an Year Begging your pardon, but Hibernate is no nightmare. We shouldn't start a HIbernate discussion on this list -- take your questions to the Hibernate lists, but I just wanted to counteract the fear factor of a message like this. I've used it on four projects ranging from small to *massive*, and it worked very nicely on all four. We never ran into "session nightmares," and multiple clicks on submit buttons are web framework issues, not OR issues! So if anybody out there is considering it, don't be scared off. Note also that in Tapestry, if you're using Java 1.5, you don't need .page files at all. The code that comes out of 4.0 (when properly used) is incredibly concise. I do agree that Tapestry has dragged along a lot of bloat in the form of new, better approached -- but if you stick with the newest, best approach it's really very nice. What's *sorely* lacking is good documentation on those newest, best approaches! I'd like to see a tutorial that: (1) does actual database work from the start, and (2) uses annotations instead of .page files. All that said, I'll probably check out Wicket and Cayenne sometime. Cheers, Paul On Aug 12, 2005, at 9:15 AM, Gentry, Michael (Contractor) wrote: > I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but if you don't already > have > an investment in Hibernate, you might want to consider using Cayenne > with your Tapestry application for database persistence. Cayenne > doesn't seem to include the "nightmare" problems with sessions and > multiple clicks on submit buttons that I see on this list all the > time. > Stick a Cayenne DataContext in your Tapestry Visit and things work > pretty well. Cayenne is also quite featureful and under active > development. > > > /dev/mrg > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Veentjer - Anchor Men [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 3:29 AM > To: Tapestry users; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Back to Tapestry after an Year > > > We had the same problem. Personally I don`t have much problems with > the > complexity of Tapestry, but I can`t speak for the whole team. That is > why we are going to use Wicket (99% chance). Tapestry and Wicket look > the same (on the surface) and the both have a lot of the same options > but wicket is a lot cleaner (no more page file and no more > extracting/inserting content in pages). I think Tapestry is getting a > littlebit bloated/draging along to much garbage. > > If Tapestry could start over, I would love to see what they could make > of it. > > BTW: > Hibernate can be a nightmare. It is difficult to get the session > problems right. We have been discussing various session strategies for > more than a month, and finally came up with something usefull. The > biggest problems with sessions are the many ways you can deal with > them, > and that it is difficult to find others with similar problems. We are > glad it works and I`m glad I can reason about what is going on. > > And if you throw Spring next to Hibernate/Tapestry(or Wicket) you > have a > nice combination. Hibernate for the or-mapping. Tapestry for the > visual > aspect, and Spring glueing everything together. > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Varun Mehta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Verzonden: vrijdag 12 augustus 2005 9:07 > Aan: [email protected] > Onderwerp: Back to Tapestry after an Year > > Hi Fellas, > > I had studied Tapestry 3.0 beta, somewhere in > Jan-Feb 2004, but could not go ahead and implement > the same, as the learning curve for the team was a > bit too high, and settled on for the Petstore > application. Now I back in the same boat where I > need to get back to a framework. The debate is b/w > Struts - Webworks - Tapestry. I personally vouch for > Tapestry cos it's cleaner for the HTML guys in the > long run. Struts is something I want to avoid. > > I don't recall much of Tapestry. I was going through > some sites and found the betterpetshop application > based on Tapestry at > https://betterpetshop.dev.java.net/, also at the > same time found some criticizm on the project, as in > it uses a lot of workarounds & does not implement > Tapestry properly. > > http://www.jroller.com/page/cardsharp/Weblog?catname=%2FJava > > Tapestry is all about stateful user interactions. > It's designed to let you work with objects instead > of request parameters. (This article assumes you > WANT to work with objects instead of IDs. Plenty > of Tapestry apps just throw ID's around to get > around the problems mentioned in this posting, > e.g. the Better Petshop project.) Hibernate is > also about state. It's about serializing object > state into a relational database. It's also very > good at working with "detached" objects. In other > words, you can load persistent objects in one > Hibernate session and reattach them during a later > session. You can even modify the object between > sessions. > > Can anybody help me with the issue. Also I need a > place where I can read an updated tutorial on the > framework and train the team fast on it. The book > 'Tapestry in Action' is already issued out to > someone else, so will take some time to be back in > the library, meanwhile I need to study and give a > presentation on 'WHY TAPESTRY'. The combination we > are looking for is Tapestry + Hibernate. > > What I've read and feel is Tapestry + Hibernate is > Rocket fuel. If you take care and use it properly, > you are in space, else a minor mistake and a mid-way > boom!!.. > > Please suggest. > > > Regards > Varun Mehta > - http://varun.cjb.net > - http://varuninfo.cjb.net > - http://varunmehta.cjb.net > > > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > imagination is more important than knowledge - albert einstein > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > _________________________________________________________________ "After hearing ten thousand explanations, a fool is no wiser. 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