On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 05:02:57PM +0200, Ruud Javi wrote: > Hi, > > There is an interesting question on Frost, board Freenet, about the new > Freenet 0.7 . Would be nice to have the answers. > > > Freenet 0.7 question & responses: > ----------------------------------------------- > > Hi Frost-friends, > > Today there is a nice message on the Freenet website, telling that the > 0.7-version of Freenet will probably be released with Christmas. Now most > of us know that Freenet will become a darknet, so that friends connects to > friends.
There will be an opennet option, however if you trust your friends not to actively eavesdrop on you, the darknet is far more secure. It may be usable in areas where Freenet itself is illegal, or at the very least it will form the basis for a network usable in such environments. > > A few questions about this, hopefully you will give me some clues: > > - If Freenet 0.7 is a Friend-2-Friend network, how will we make sure that > everybody is in someway connected to each other. If I post on Frost, will > everybody receive my message? Only if they are listening. :) We may have a number of small darknets as well as some large ones. I expect that there will be one network which is significantly bigger than the others though. This would hopefully assimilate smaller ones as it and they grow. Obviously you only get global horizons within a given network. However it will eventually be possible to migrate content between networks, even if you don't have the privkey used to insert it. > > - Friends-2-Friends network, has the advantage of more security and the > disadvantage that you will have to know people on Freenet before you can > join. While Freenet is so anonymous, I don't know real people near me using > Freenet. How will I find 'friends' to connect to the network. Do we have to > find people in the current Freenet who are willing to give there IP's or > not? F2F is more secure if you can find people to connect to whom: a) You nominally "know", either IRL or on the Net. This is necessary to get the right "small world" network structure so that routing can work. b) You trust not to betray the fact that you are using an illegal network, in regimes where it is illegal (which could include the West in the not too distant future) c) You trust not to actively spy on your requests, using correlation attacks etc. How hard we make it for them is the subject of some debate - there are some nasty tradeoffs e.g. whether to cache locally requested data. > > - How will we make sure that it isn't too hard for new people to join the > new Freenet (in 0.7 they will need 'friends' before they can join I think), > because more Freenet-users = more content = better (imho) They can join the opennet. It is reasonable to expect the new darknets to expand outwards at some pace, but initially it would be relatively slow. > > - How many contacts do you need in the new Freenet? If you have only 1 > contact, then he will know everything you are doing + you can only connect > to the new Freenet if his node is online. Indeed. Just as if you only have one seednode, he can compromize your anonymity. However because he will give you other nodes, you can still get a reliable connection and be a useful part of the network, if he is not malicious. > > Thank you very much for answering! > Funor > > ----------------------------------------------- > > The main 0.7 network will be as open as the current 0.5 network, so you > don't need to join a darknet to participate. Darknet support is intended > mainly for users who have to hide their nodes from the main network. > > ----------------------------------------------- > > Could you back that up with maby a link to the mailinglists where toad (or > ian) says it's going to be like that? For the last i heard was that there > is going to be two seperate networks. One "darknet" and one like the one we > have today - open. That is true. That is my current intention - one or more darknets, and one opennet. > > Back to Funors questions (and you might be better off asking them to > someone who actually knows aka. someone on the mailinglists, and not some > random ass-hat like me or the other people you might find on frost :) > > First off, you can't be sure that everyone is connected to each other, and > that everyone will get a message you post to frost. It is very possible > that there will in fact be several disconnected darknets. Hope and theory > is that they will melt together, but you can't be sure of this. But i think > you can be preatty sure that there will be one "primary" or "big" darknet - > so that if you are on that one, everyone who want to, can read your > message. And everyone who is not on that "primary" network are not there of > own free will. (With the current freenet, you can't be sure that there is > not another network out there, that dosn't get you'r frost message, so > that's not really a big/new" pr"oblem.) There probably are still some accidental forks out there caused by people not upgrading their 0.5 nodes... > > About getting on the network - or having friends there, i have had the same > worries, and maby that will be a major problem. But my guess is that there > will be a lot of people posting to ./, the mail lists etc. asking for > "friends" and if you answer such an "add", you'r not really giving away > more info than you are now. Open up your "open connections" page and you > will see a lot of ip adresses. Every one of those adresse has just as much > info about your node avaliabile to them as some random stranger you choose > to hook up your node through on the new .7 network. > > About getting new users i think you have to be a nice guy once you have > gotten onto the network and look out for otheres looking for invites - it's > as simple as that. So in that sence you'r questions are two sides of the > same problem. How does one get onto the network, and how does one help > others onto the network... I think / hope this will come naturally. > And maby you have to start thinking of frinds as somthing more than people > you have meet and know well. Someone who is in the same online comunity as > you will proberly work just as well. Quite possibly, but random automated matching would not produce a usable network. But certainly you can connect to somebody you know via IRC etc. > > The number of connections will be a lot lower than it is now (i have heard > - check with a coder to be sure). I'm guessing 5-15 connections. Sounds probable. > > > Hope that answeres some of your questions - but again, i'm just guessing > here. Get someone to post your questions to the maillists if you want more > qualified answers. -- Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/tech/attachments/20050913/57de2bad/attachment.pgp>
