On Tue, Jun 20, 2006 at 03:12:20AM -0400, Colin Davis wrote:
> As a lowly user, I've not found UP&P to work well for my, on any  
> network I've worked with it on.
> Again, I know my opinion doesn't count for much, but it seems like it  
> wouldn't be as helpful as other tasks.
> 
> I can see two additional benefits, however.
>       When combined with a delay in Keepalive/Handshaking for properly  
> port-forwarded nodes, this could allow more bandwidth to be used for  
> actual traffic, rather than infrastructure.

As I have stated on numerous occasions, the handshake traffic is not a
serious problem. What is a serious problem is people adding hundreds of
nodes to their refs via scripts that trawl #freenet-refs. Only if you
have hundreds of refs will the bandwidth used by handshake traffic be a
problem. But we warn the user with a relatively small number of refs as
a large number of disconnected peers strongly implies you've been adding
refs from people who haven't added you.
> 
>       This would increase the number of users who are accessible to those  
> who do not know their IP address. (These users can only access  
> someone who is properly port forwarded)

90%+ of nodes don't know their IP address when first installed, because
they are behind a router/NAT/PAT. UP&P and STUN let us find it. The
problem with STUN is that it can probably be fingerprinted. Additionally
UP&P lets a NATed node which doesn't know its IP address connect to
another node. Right now a new NATed node which doesn't know its IP
address can only connect to a port forwarded node - this is a serious
limitation to connectivity!
> 
> -Colin
> 
> On Jun 19, 2006, at 10:19 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote:
> 
> >Do we need to implement UP&P support? It would help in many areas:
> >- It would allow us to forward ports and detect our real IP address!
> >- It would make connection work more reliably on dynamic IPs,  
> >especially
> >  with nodes with poor uptime.
> >- It would expand the range of nodes which can be seednodes on  
> >opennet.
> >  (To be a seednode you need to be directly connected or port
> >  forwarded).
> >- It would allow us to implement something like the distribution
> >  servlet.
> >- It would allow us to usefully implement support for  
> >"invitations", one
> >  use darknet references which come with authorization to add the  
> >other
> >  side.
> >
> >Unfortunately:
> >- It is grossly insecure if run on a LAN with untrusted users. We  
> >would
> >  have to ask the user during setup.
> >- It is blocked by default on Windows XP SP2.
> >- Stats on another p2p app which supported UP&P showed it only working
> >  successfully about 50% of the time even when detected... That may  
> >have
> >  been bugs in their implementation of course...
> >
> >So is it a panacea or a nightmare? Do we want UP&P support?
> >-- 
> >Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
> >Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
> >ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
> >_______________________________________________
> >Tech mailing list
> >Tech at freenetproject.org
> >http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tech
> 
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> 

-- 
Matthew J Toseland - toad at amphibian.dyndns.org
Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/
ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so.
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