On Mon, 2018-11-12 at 12:38 -0500, Brian Callahan wrote: > > On 11/12/18 11:20 AM, John Long wrote: > > On Mon, 2018-11-12 at 06:57 +0000, Jason McIntyre wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 07:36:55PM -0500, Brian Callahan wrote: > > > > Hi tech -- > > > > > > > > Reminded by the recent email to tech@ about > > > > calendar.christian, I > > > > took a look at syncing calendar.judaic. > > > > > > > > This diff does the following: > > > > 1. Sync the holiday days that are not connected to Pesach, > > > > which > > > > on > > > > our calendar is Chanukah, Fast of 10 Tevet, and Yom > > > > Yerushalayim. > > > > I am not sure what this means. All of the Jewish holidays move on > > the > > civil calendar year to year. However, since every time the > > calendar > > includes an additional month (a second Adar) the month is inserted > > before Pesach; therefore the holidays which fall after that time > > do > > not move *relative to Pesach* but they do move on the civil > > calendar. > > What are you talking about? This is in reference to the code in > calendar(1) that sets the dates for the Judaic calendar. If you > think > there's something wrong there, I await your patch to > usr.bin/calendar/pesach.c >
I haven't seen the code. I responded to the comment that "days are not connected to Pesach." All Jewish holidays are connected to Pesach, it is one of the points from which years are calculated. And my statement above and the explanation how it works is correct as I wrote it. So what are you talking about? Exactly what did I write that you are disputing here? > Yes, I know how the Hebrew calendar works. mickey@'s calculation is > actually quite nice IMO. > > > > 2. Add the holidays that are explicitly mentioned on the > > > > Wikipedia > > > > page of Jewish holidays, which adds Tu B'Shevat to our > > > > calendar. > > > > 3. Replace the year marker on Rosh Hashana with the current > > > > Jewish > > > > year (5741 => 5779). This calendar has to be updated yearly as > > > > it > > > > is anyway, so it seems odd to me not to put the current year > > > > if > > > > we're going to list a year in connection with Rosh Hashanah. > > > > > > > > It looks like mickey@ removed Yom HaAtzmaut some years ago due > > > > to > > > > the understanding that this be a religious and not secular > > > > calendar. Which is a perfectly legitimate stance, as there is > > > > no > > > > universal yes or no as to whether or not the Israeli > > > > rememberance > > > > holidays are religious holidays, both in Israel and in the > > > > dispora. > > > > There is. Yom Hatzmaut, Yom HaShoah, Yom Hazikaron, Yom > > Yerushalayim > > are all Israeli (civil) holidays not connected to the Jewish > > religion. > > > > Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism (in the US, at least) both > treat > Yom HaShoah as a religious holiday, with both crafting prayers > specifically for the holiday and with Conservative Judaism writing a > new > liturgy for the day. If the calendar we are talking about is supposed to be representative of mainstream Jewish belief and practice which has remained the same for the past 3,500 years then those demominations will need their own calendars. > > This is considered so "common knowledge" that Wikipedia has a whole > section on it: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_HaShoah#Religious_observances_and_liturgy This is no proof of anything except activism which isn't representative of the Jewish religion. > > Additionally, there is no reason that calendar.judaic cannot be both > a > religious and secular calendar. mickey@ clearly had reasons for > preferring to it to be religious only but I can't go ask him his > reasoning for it. So my question is whether or not people prefer > one > over the other. I slightly prefer it to be both religious and > secular > but I care more about the dates being maintained so am willing to > go > either way. I have no preference either, since I don't use it, rather I use calendars from reliable sources and I have also written my own which aligns with those. Again, I was responding to what Jason wrote. Regardless, some of the holidays mentioned are Jewish, some are Israeli. There is no overlap. > > > > > So we either need to remove Yom Yerushalayim for the same > > > > reason, > > > > or add back Yom HaAtzmaut, and add Yom HaShoah and Yom > > > > Hazikaron. > > > > Doesn't matter to me either way. It might be nice to include > > > > Yom > > > > HaShoah in either event, as it is likely to become a universal > > > > Jewish religious holiday within our lifetimes. > > > > That is absolutely not true. No major religious authority has ever > > recognized any of the Israeli civil holidays. > > > > This again is so not true that Wikipedia has a section on it: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_HaShoah#Religious_observances_and_liturgy There is no major religious authority that has recognized any Israeli holidays. And all the nonsense you find online or elsewhere doesn't change 3,500 years of Jewish legal practice and thought. We simply don't observe the Israeli innovations (in Israel) and they have no meaning whatsoever to Jews. > > But again, we can make the calendar religious and secular. Right but then the name Judaic is no longer applicable. > > You may disagree with the Reform and Conservative movement, but both > are > major religious authorities and normative Judaism. No, that's where you're absolutely mistaken. Those movements have left mainstream Jewish practice and belief and they are now separate religions only loosely based on authentic Judaism. Even the Israeli government rejects conversions and marriages peformed by those groups. That says a lot... nobody can claim they are practicing Judaism, not even a State with an agenda. > > > > > Whatever is decided > > > > having Yom Yerushalayim by itself is the strangest of all > > > > worlds. > > > > > > > > And I'll volunteer to keep this calendar synced since I might > > > > be > > > > the only one who cares about it. > > > > > > > > OK? > > > > > > > > ~Brian > > > > > > > > > > morning. > > > > > > if you're willing to do the work, i say go for it. i don;t have > > > enough > > > knowledge about dates/holidays to provide any useful feedback. > > > > > > if you have any opinion on the .christian diff, please do reply. > > > i'm > > > about to as well, but again i just don;t have the knowledge to > > > deal > > > with this. > > > > I can help with this. Contact me offline with any questions. > > > > In the diff below I see some conflicts in terms of > > transliteration. > > There are two main communities of Jews and the transliterations > > below > > do not align with either one in all cases. > > Honestly, the transliterations are fine. I'll write them all in > Yiddish > though if you have concerns. That doesn't make any sense. The Yiddish words for these months are the same as Biblical Hebrew and all Jews write them in the same way. > > ~Brian The transliterations are not fine. Pesach+185 Shmini Atzeres is according to Ashkenazic tradition while +12/18* Fast of Asara B'Tevet is according to Sephardic tradition and others were not even transliterated such as Pesach-31 Fast of Esther So there are inconsistencies that should probably be resolved. > > > /jl > > > > > > > jmc > > > > > > > Index: calendar.judaic > > > > ============================================================== > > > > ==== > > > > = > > > > RCS file: > > > > /cvs/src/usr.bin/calendar/calendars/calendar.judaic,v > > > > retrieving revision 1.5 > > > > diff -u -p -r1.5 calendar.judaic > > > > --- calendar.judaic 6 Sep 2005 23:42:59 -0000 1.5 > > > > +++ calendar.judaic 12 Nov 2018 00:11:04 -0000 > > > > @@ -7,7 +7,7 @@ > > > > #ifndef _calendar_judaic_ > > > > #define _calendar_judaic_ > > > > > > > > -Pesach+163 First Day of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish Lunar New > > > > Year; > > > > 5741 == 1980; > > > > +Pesach+163 First Day of Rosh Hashanah (Jewish Lunar New > > > > Year; > > > > 5779 == 2018; > > > > sabbatical) > > > > Pesach+164 Rosh Hashanah (sabbatical) > > > > Pesach+166 Fast of Gedalya (Murder of Gedalya and > > > > subsequent > > > > Exile; fast day) > > > > @@ -17,8 +17,9 @@ Pesach+179 Succot (sabbatical) > > > > Pesach+184 Hoshanah Rabba (7th day of Succos) > > > > Pesach+185 Shmini Atzeres (8th Day of Gathering; > > > > sabbatical) > > > > Pesach+186 Shmini Atzeres/Simchas Torah (Rejoicing of the > > > > Law; > > > > sabbatical) > > > > -12/12* First Day of Chanukah > > > > -12/27* Fast of Asara B'Tevet (Babylonians put siege on > > > > Jerusalem; fast day) > > > > +12/03* First Day of Chanukah > > > > +12/18* Fast of Asara B'Tevet (Babylonians put siege on > > > > Jerusalem; fast day) > > > > +01/20* Tu B'Shevat (New Year of the Trees) > > > > Pesach-31 Fast of Esther (Battle of Purim; fast day) > > > > Pesach-30 Purim (Feast of Lots) > > > > Pesach-29 Purim (Feast of Lots) > > > > @@ -27,10 +28,10 @@ Pesach+1 Pesach (sabbatical) > > > > Pesach+6 Pesach (sabbatical) > > > > Pesach+7 Pesach (Last Day of Passover; 8th day of > > > > Pesach; > > > > sabbatical) > > > > Pesach+34 Lag Ba`omer (Commemoration of the Great > > > > Rebellion) > > > > -05/22* Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem) > > > > +06/01* Yom Yerushalayim (Reunification of Jerusalem) > > > > Pesach+50 Shavuot (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical) > > > > Pesach+51 Shavuot (Festival of Weeks; sabbatical) > > > > -07/10* Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of > > > > Jerusalem; fast day) > > > > +07/21* Fast of Shiv'a Asar B'Tammuz (Romans breach Wall of > > > > Jerusalem; fast day) > > > > Pesach+81 Fast of Tish'a B'Av (Babylon destroys Holy > > > > Temple; > > > > fast day) > > > > > > > > #endif /* !_calendar_judaic_ */ > > > > > >
