I fixed the digest! Happy browsing of 31 messages, yes, it's been busy in the last 24 hours. Thanks for pointing out that you were getting too many, was a default setting in mailman. I'm still new to this software as well.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 10:00 AM, via Texascavers < [email protected]> wrote: > Send Texascavers mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Texascavers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. My scrolling finger is worn out! (via Texascavers) > 2. Re: The Printed Word (via Texascavers) > 3. Natural Trap Cave (Mixon Bill via Texascavers) > 4. CREE lights (Bill Bentley via Texascavers) > 5. Re: [Ilspeleo] CREE lights (Phil Goldman via Texascavers) > 6. Re: [SWR] CREE lights (Peter Jones via Texascavers) > 7. Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers) > 8. The Texas Caver (Mixon Bill via Texascavers) > 9. NPR Article Fossils in Wyoming Cave (Denise P via Texascavers) > 10. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Loving via Texascavers) > 11. Re: Texas Caver (c via Texascavers) > 12. Re: The Texas Caver (Jill Orr via Texascavers) > 13. Re: Texas Caver (Jacqueline Thomas via Texascavers) > 14. Re: The Texas Caver (via Texascavers) > 15. Re: The Texas Caver (Charles Loving via Texascavers) > 16. Re: The Texas Caver (George-Paul Richmann via Texascavers) > 17. Re: Texas Caver (Marvin Miller via Texascavers) > 18. $ 500 offer (David via Texascavers) > 19. Re: The Texas Caver (Stefan Creaser via Texascavers) > 20. Re: The Texas Caver (Katherine Arens via Texascavers) > 21. Re: Texas Caver (via Texascavers) > 22. Re: Texas Caver (Bill Bentley via Texascavers) > 23. Re: $ 500 offer (Charles Loving via Texascavers) > 24. Re: [SWR] CREE lights (Charles Loving via Texascavers) > 25. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers) > 26. Re: The Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers) > 27. Re: Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers) > 28. Mailing List update and bounce information > (Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers) > 29. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers) > 30. Re: Texas Caver (Joe Ranzau via Texascavers) > 31. Re: Texas Caver (via Texascavers) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:15:26 -0400 > From: via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Texascavers] My scrolling finger is worn out! > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > In a message dated 7/30/2014 11:31:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Geeze, Louise! (Not you, Louise.) Can't you people trim your posts? My > scrolling finger is worn out! And why am I getting 5 TC digests in a > single day? (Actually postmarked within > 90 minutes...) Shouldn't they be going out once, at midnight? > > Alex > > Thank you Alex. Allow me to add that no one should ever post a mystery > link, much less inexplicably respond to whatever was in the mystery link. > > Aside from bad manners, I believe this babbling bullshit is the inevitable > result of the proliferation of social media through hand held electronic > devices, a disease which is dumbing down both our communications and > ourselves. As a result I am just about to give up on this list and the > others to > which I subscribe. > > Try this: Sit down ONCE A DAY at your computer (Not your cell phone!) in > the hope that something interesting has been posted. If and when you > choose > to respond begin by stripping each and every impertinent item from the > post > then respond in a cogent manner using complete sentences with correct > punctuation. It is not difficult to do so. The fundamentals of this > technique > are taught to grade school children. > > Dare I suggest an attempt at craft? Is it too much to hope that I might > occasionally be treated to the artful retelling of a tale, or perhaps a > witticism? I would prefer a description of events more elucidating than, > "...it > was dark. We turned left and then we turned right". > > Most of you are old farts, you have plenty of time, so try doing it right! > > Sleazeweazel > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/bc6f6edf/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 11:20:37 -0500 > From: via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Cc: Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I think that would be great, OMW ! > > Jerry. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Charles Loving via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Not an article a comic book page. The Advetures of Karst Walker and Mull > and Doon. The quest for the Holy Carbide Light. A continuation of the > adventures of Nurdoo and Zeplin who appeared in the NSS News many eons ago. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Oh chill, I'm just kidding ... ;-) > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos. > Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we > want to give up all rights to everything contained in it. > > > > > > On 30 July 2014 06:48, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > "Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly > due to ... and social networking." > > > > Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying > ;-) > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Should read “NSS members”. > > > > > > > > It’s awfully early. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of via Texascavers > > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM > > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word > > > > > > Agreed, Mimi. > > > > > > > > > > > > When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the > fact that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH > publications. > > > > > > > > Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may > be a good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. > > > > > > > > Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly > due to apathy and social networking. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hopefully, I'm wrong. > > > > > > > > Y'all's thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Mimi Jasek via Texascavers > > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM > > To: TexasCavers > > Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word > > > > > > > > How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something > on paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a > Texas Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. > > > > > > > > Mimi Jasek > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Lyndon Tiu > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Go find out! > > -Heather Tuček > > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > > NSS 59660 > > (512) 773-1348 > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > -- > > Lyndon Tiu > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Charlie Loving > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/397f5536/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:11:14 -0500 > From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]> > Subject: [Texascavers] Natural Trap Cave > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > For some mysterious reason, there has been a lot of comment about the > "reopening" of Natural Trap Cave in Wyoming. I trust everyone has > noticed that the cave has not actually be reopened for _caving_, but > just for renewed paleontological work, which is not at all the same > thing. -- Mixon > ---------------------------------------- > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > ---------------------------------------- > You may "reply" to the address this message > came from, but for long-term use, save: > Personal: [email protected] > AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:20:57 -0500 > From: Bill Bentley via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Cave Texas > <[email protected]>, MoCaves <[email protected]>, > [email protected], [email protected], Cave List < > [email protected]>, > [email protected] > Subject: [Texascavers] CREE lights > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Greetings, > Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other > wise... > It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And > leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary > though... > It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for > 48 hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it > was... > Bill > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: cree1.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 25892 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/de9b0210/attachment-0002.jpg > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: cree2.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 25218 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/de9b0210/attachment-0003.jpg > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:41:41 -0500 > From: Phil Goldman via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: [email protected], Ilspeleo Cavers Mailing List <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Cave Texas > <[email protected]>, Cave List <[email protected]>, > [email protected], [email protected], MoCaves > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [Ilspeleo] CREE lights > Message-ID: > < > caesazmeg1d+txdvkcnt37c6zm0gu_u4b3vurxj78htwgwtq...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > You may want to jump on to the FaceBook Electric Cave Lights Group. There > has been quite a bit of discussion around the "Chinese" cree lights. They > aren't the real deal and the lumins are way off nor do they meet up their > claims of shock proof and waterproof. But they are cheap! If you do the > math (and I don't have the numbers in front of me), to run the newer > generation Crees at 3k lumin (which is beyond their design spec) for 48 > hours would require a car battery. But you wouldn't get that long anways, > because the fire department would have arrived to put your smoldering head > out :-) > > I'm a HUGE fan of the Cree lights, specifically the Zebra. Although there > are other very good brands, like Fenix, Black Diamond, Petzl & etc. All > have slightly different features and functionalities and costs. I > personally feel the Zebra is the best bang for the buck and I can cave 12 > hours on one battery if I'm conservative. 1k lumin is so much light in the > cave environment, it's ridiculous :-) > > > Phil Goldman > Chairman, Windy City Grotto > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Bill Bentley <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Greetings, > > Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other > > wise... > > It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And > > leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary > > though... > > It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 > > hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... > > Bill > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ilspeleo mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ilspeleo > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/551503ad/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 13:59:25 -0400 > From: Peter Jones via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: [email protected], SWR Cavers Mailing List <[email protected]> > Cc: Cave Texas <[email protected]>, Cave List > <[email protected]>, MoCaves <[email protected]>, [email protected] > , > [email protected], [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] CREE lights > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Not with headlamps, only as regular house incandescent/CFL lamp > replacements. We like them because they are cheap ($4 at Home Depot for > the 60 W version) and are dimmable to a certain extent. They seem well > made and with luck will last longer as lamps than I will as a human being. > With power output that you mention on the headlamps, we call them > formation burners. You could topple Goliath with one sweep of that beam > light!!! > > Peter > > > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Bill Bentley wrote: > > > Greetings, > > Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other > wise... > > It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And > leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary > though... > > It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for > 48 hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... > > Bill > > > > <cree1.jpg><cree2.jpg>_______________________________________________ > > SWR mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/4feca27f/attachment-0001.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: SITDCP Card 2010.tif > Type: image/tiff > Size: 212460 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/4feca27f/attachment-0001.tif > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:04:15 -0500 > From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Texas Cavers <[email protected]> > Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > <CAA_AXMiYm6bP= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, > just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know > what? Worth it. > > > > The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May > issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only > finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in > trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if > there's nothing to put in it. > > I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past > couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips > this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant > amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding > photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great > publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS > Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? > Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! > > There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why > isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national > magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're > going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! > (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). > > Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail > anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the > problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't > want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone > copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and > grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! > > > > > TL;DR > Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your > front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. > > /end rant > > > -- > *Go find out!* > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > [email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/f923c036/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:51:02 -0500 > From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]> > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am > moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position > to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is > already oversubscribed. > > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've > gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including > in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to > find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as > much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos, > printed at reasonable sizes, to look good. > > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything > about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of > newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an > editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the > recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his > caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I > had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet, > uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or > TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT > Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver > should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital > archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the > Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare > TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media > or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest > AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, > supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are > reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different > form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or > Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the > TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas > Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one, > fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, > but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have > appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from > them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least > by Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS > News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or > the author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version > for the Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive > Vice-President is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own > the copyright to anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should > certainly always go on record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited > to cut out semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for > material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But > that doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) > > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent > record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include > as much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course > some discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for > breakfast during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, > which is too much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > ---------------------------------------- > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > ---------------------------------------- > You may "reply" to the address this message > came from, but for long-term use, save: > Personal: [email protected] > AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected] > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:08:38 +0000 > From: Denise P via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: TexasCavers <[email protected]> > Subject: [Texascavers] NPR Article Fossils in Wyoming Cave > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Heard about this on NPR. Not sure if it's been posted already. Any cavers > involved? > > > http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/us-usa-fossils-wyoming-idUSKBN0FU07T20140725 > > Cheers, > Denise > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/4474c445/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:20:01 -0500 > From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Heather Tucek <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > < > cajfdpxshudb1-fwydupimkra123magkbd8i5hksyuashckg...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, > > just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know > > what? Worth it. > > > > > > > > The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May > > issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is > only > > finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in > > trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if > > there's nothing to put in it. > > > > I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the > past > > couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips > > this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant > > amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding > > photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great > > publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS > > Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? > > Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! > > > > There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? > > Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the > > national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If > > you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your > > email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). > > > > Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail > > anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the > > problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't > > want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone > > copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling > and > > grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR > > Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on > > your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. > > > > /end rant > > > > > > -- > > *Go find out!* > > -Heather Tuček > > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > > NSS 59660 > > (512) 773-1348 > > [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0001.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: karst walker comic.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 380415 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0004.jpg > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Walker 2_edited-1.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 838500 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0005.jpg > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Karst 1 1.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 1004967 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0006.jpg > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: KW 2 1.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 707917 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0007.jpg > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:29:45 +0000 > From: c via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]?=" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > loving, > > quit stealing grenades from Uvalde. make your own > > > BO > > > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > > > > > From: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:20 PM > To: Heather Tucek, [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, > just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know > what? Worth it. > > > > > > The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May > issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only > finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in > trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if > there's nothing to put in it. > > I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past > couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips > this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant > amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding > photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great > publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS > Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? > Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! > > There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? > Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the > national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If > you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your > email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). > > Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail > anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the > problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't > want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone > copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and > grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! > > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR > Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on > your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. > > /end rant > > > > -- > Go find out! > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/e309ca6f/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 00:31:20 +0200 > From: Jill Orr via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: "'Mixon Bill'" <[email protected]>, > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Bill, > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs > attention. > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at > a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for > material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", perhaps > you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an > opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all > the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in > Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to > and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after > all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for > postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. > > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage > cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality > publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win > friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. > > jill orr > 210.399.6762 > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com > > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved > to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to > volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already > oversubscribed. > > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten > barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the > average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. > The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at > no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable > sizes, to look good. > > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about > Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of > newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's > job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my > time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by > posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles > through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses > you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the > NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the > Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal > digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the > Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers > posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or > elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS > Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by > different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from > various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people > leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been > good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they > routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can > be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth > a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought > to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still > published? > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them > for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by > Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News > about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author > might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. > (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is > needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to > anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on > record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out > semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material > and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't > entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) > > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent > record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as > much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some > discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast > during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too > much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > ---------------------------------------- > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > ---------------------------------------- > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term > use, save: > Personal: [email protected] > AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:13:52 -0500 > From: Jacqueline Thomas via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > No, No, Nooooooo! Save them for the Caver, Mr. Loving, sir, please!!!! > > Here's an idea-- > I saw multiple people do interesting things at NSS Convention and maybe no > one wants to write a "real trip report" but multiple brief vignettes by > several attendees, collected into a "glimpses of Convention" article could > be pretty entertaining. I'd write up my favorite "fooled me" moment. > > Any takers? > > Jacqui > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You > know, just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you > know what? Worth it. > > > > > > > > The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May > issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only > finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in > trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if > there's nothing to put in it. > > > > I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the > past couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG > trips this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an > exorbitant amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, > editing, adding photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver > a great publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS > Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? > Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! > > > > There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? > Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the > national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If > you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your > email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). > > > > Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail > anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the > problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't > want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone > copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and > grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR > > Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on > your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. > > > > /end rant > > > > > > > > -- > > Go find out! > > -Heather Tuček > > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > > NSS 59660 > > (512) 773-1348 > > [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Charlie Loving > > <karst walker comic.jpg><Walker 2_edited-1.jpg><Karst 1 1.jpg><KW 2 > 1.jpg>_______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:34:31 -0500 > From: via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Jill Orr <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > Cc: "<[email protected]>" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Ouch ! Touchy ..... > > Jerry. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Bill, > > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that > needs attention. > > > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort > at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > > > > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea > for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", > perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just > an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to > all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on > in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to > and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after > all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for > postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. > > > > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage > cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality > publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win > friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. > > > > jill orr > > 210.399.6762 > > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com > > > > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > > > > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am > moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to > volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already > oversubscribed. > > > > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten > barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the > average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. > The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at > no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable > sizes, to look good. > > > > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything > about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of > newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's > job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my > time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by > posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles > through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses > you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the > NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the > Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal > digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the > Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers > posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > > > > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or > elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS > Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by > different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from > various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people > leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been > good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they > routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can > be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth > a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought > to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still > published? > > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them > for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by > Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS > News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the > author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the > Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President > is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to > anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on > record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out > semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? > > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material > and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't > entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) > > > > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent > record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as > much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some > discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast > during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too > much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > > ---------------------------------------- > > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > > ---------------------------------------- > > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term > use, save: > > Personal: [email protected] > > AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 19:06:55 -0500 > From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: jerryatkin <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > Message-ID: > <CAJfDpxu80k= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write > but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Ouch ! Touchy ..... > > > > Jerry. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that > > needs attention. > > > > > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort > > at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing > communications > > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I > should > > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in > any > > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > > > > > > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea > > for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", > > perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than > just > > an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to > > all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going > on > > in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed > to > > and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after > > all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking > for > > postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. > > > > > > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage > > cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality > > publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win > > friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. > > > > > > jill orr > > > 210.399.6762 > > > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com > > > > > > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > > > > > > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am > > moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to > > volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already > > oversubscribed. > > > > > > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > > magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've > gotten > > barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the > > average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. > > The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material > at > > no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable > > sizes, to look good. > > > > > > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything > > about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of > > newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's > > job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my > > time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by > > posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles > > through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that > amuses > > you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in > the > > NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the > > Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal > > digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even > the > > Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare > TexasCavers > > posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > > > > > > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or > > elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS > > Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by > > different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from > > various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people > > leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have > been > > good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they > > routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo > can > > be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be > worth > > a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words > ought > > to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still > > published? > > > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from > them > > for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > > > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by > > Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > > > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS > > News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the > > author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the > > Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive > Vice-President > > is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to > > anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on > > record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out > > semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? > > > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > > > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for > material > > and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't > > entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) > > > > > > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent > > record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as > > much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some > > discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast > > during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too > > much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for > long-term > > use, save: > > > Personal: [email protected] > > > AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected] > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/725eb064/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 20:46:55 -0400 > From: George-Paul Richmann via Texascavers > <[email protected]> > To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>, TSA Cavers > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > Message-ID: > < > cabsr2qh87_1voauvhuohomujbfs-o72vcxorfhakfture60...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; > they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of > exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict > their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize > their teachers.” > ― Socrates <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/275648.Socrates> > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write > > but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or > Walmart. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Ouch ! Touchy ..... > >> > >> Jerry. > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < > >> [email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > Hi Bill, > >> > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that > >> needs attention. > >> > > >> > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort > >> at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing > communications > >> professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > >> listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I > should > >> listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in > any > >> endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > >> increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > >> > > >> > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea > >> for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", > >> perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than > just > >> an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly > to > >> all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going > on > >> in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly > appealed to > >> and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after > >> all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking > for > >> postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. > >> > > >> > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage > >> cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality > >> publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to > win > >> friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. > >> > > >> > jill orr > >> > 210.399.6762 > >> > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com > >> > > >> > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > >> > > >> > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am > >> moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to > >> volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already > >> oversubscribed. > >> > > >> > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > >> magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've > gotten > >> barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the > >> average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find > text. > >> The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much > material at > >> no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable > >> sizes, to look good. > >> > > >> > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything > >> about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of > >> newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's > >> job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my > >> time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities > by > >> posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three > miles > >> through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that > amuses > >> you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in > the > >> NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the > >> Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information > Portal > >> digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even > the > >> Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare > TexasCavers > >> posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > >> > > >> > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media > or > >> elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS > >> Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by > >> different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from > >> various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people > >> leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have > been > >> good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they > >> routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo > can > >> be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be > worth > >> a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words > ought > >> to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still > >> published? > >> > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from > >> them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > >> > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least > by > >> Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > >> > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS > >> News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or > the > >> author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the > >> Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive > Vice-President > >> is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to > >> anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on > >> record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out > >> semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? > >> > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > >> > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for > >> material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But > that > >> doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) > >> > > >> > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent > >> record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include > as > >> much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some > >> discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for > breakfast > >> during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too > >> much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > >> > ---------------------------------------- > >> > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are > lying. > >> > ---------------------------------------- > >> > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for > >> long-term use, save: > >> > Personal: [email protected] > >> > AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected] > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > >> [email protected] | Archives: > >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > >> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > >> > [email protected] | Archives: > >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > >> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > >> [email protected] | Archives: > >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Charlie Loving > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > -- > George-Paul Richmann > (513) 490-3100 > [email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/009cd23a/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 22:19:01 -0500 > From: Marvin Miller via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Heather Tucek <[email protected]>, [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > < > caf-ygdw9m799fnrbmxe8p_bct25_4mqtfbukpawazx8bksj...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS > News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - > as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, > etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. > That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, > and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They > were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead > picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers > across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and > do interesting things. > > I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in > a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and > submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the > editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and > publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and > the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, > > just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know > > what? Worth it. > > > > > > > > The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May > > issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is > only > > finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in > > trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if > > there's nothing to put in it. > > > > I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the > past > > couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips > > this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant > > amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding > > photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great > > publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS > > Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? > > Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! > > > > There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? > > Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the > > national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If > > you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your > > email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). > > > > Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail > > anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the > > problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't > > want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone > > copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling > and > > grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR > > Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on > > your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. > > > > /end rant > > > > > > -- > > *Go find out!* > > -Heather Tuček > > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > > NSS 59660 > > (512) 773-1348 > > [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/46ebaa82/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 23:19:02 -0500 > From: David via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: CaveTex <[email protected]> > Subject: [Texascavers] $ 500 offer > Message-ID: > < > caecwswmvdrvsntafcvtx0cu63gjphveo5pc6ua9lp1srymo...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I would like to propose that the TSA sell to me outright The Texas Caver. > I offer a price of $ 500. This would include all future legal > rights to the name, "The > Texas Caver," along with any profits, and I would be free to do with the > magazine as I wished, such as sell it, rename it, operate it, etc. > > Then the TSA could focus its efforts on the defunct TSA Activities > Newsletter, ( R.I.P.) > > > > David Locklear > ( probably not even a TSA member at the moment ) > NSS # 27639 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:38:02 +0000 > From: Stefan Creaser via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, > jerryatkin <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 > > Tsk tsk... > > It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways > too ;-) > > -Stefan > ________________________________________ > From: Texascavers [[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Charles Loving via Texascavers [[email protected]] > Sent: 30 July 2014 19:06 > To: jerryatkin; Cavers Texas > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > > Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write > but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Ouch ! Touchy ..... > > Jerry. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > Hi Bill, > > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that > needs attention. > > > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort > at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > > > > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea > for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", > perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just > an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to > all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on > in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to > and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after > all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for > postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. > > > > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage > cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality > publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win > friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. > > > > jill orr > > 210.399.6762<tel:210.399.6762> > > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com<http://jillorr.businesscatalyst.com> > > > > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > > > > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am > moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to > volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already > oversubscribed. > > > > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten > barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the > average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. > The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at > no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable > sizes, to look good. > > > > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything > about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of > newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's > job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my > time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by > posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles > through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses > you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the > NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the > Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal > digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the > Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers > posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > > > > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or > elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS > Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by > different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from > various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people > leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been > good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they > routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can > be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth > a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought > to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still > published? > > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them > for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by > Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS > News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the > author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the > Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President > is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to > anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on > record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out > semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? > > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material > and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't > entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) > > > > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent > record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as > much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some > discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast > during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too > much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > > ---------------------------------------- > > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > > ---------------------------------------- > > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term > use, save: > > Personal: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > AMCS: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> or > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | > Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | > Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | > Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. Thank you. > > ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, > Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 > ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, > Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:47:39 +0000 > From: Katherine Arens via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Texas Cavers <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > What is being suggested through some of this thread is not bad, == and > it’s what happens for “Mexico News” in AMCS: take what’s posted on other > media (printed in other places), and use as short notes, with the editor > filling them out. > > And then use spell check . . . > > TSA and the Caver have always cycled; not gone under. Sometimes people > write, and other times cave. Pay attention and devote some time to the > other side of the fence. IF it went digital it could collect the now LARGE > numbers of videos on people’s phones, ask for voice-over narratives. > > new media; new opportunities. > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Tsk tsk... > > It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways > too ;-) > > -Stefan > ________________________________________ > > Jerry. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto: > [email protected]>> wrote: > > Hi Bill, > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs > attention. > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at > a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > . . . . > > ************************ > Katherine Arens Office Phone: (512) 232-6363 > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Dept. Phone: (512) > 471-4123 > Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025 > 2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location: Burdine 336 > University of Texas at Austin Office: Burdine 320 > Austin, TX 78712-1802 > > -. .- > _..-'( )`-.._ > ./'. '||\\. (\_/) .//||` .`\. > ./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )O O( ..|//||||`.`|.`\. > ./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`" '` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\. > ./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. . |||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\. > /'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\ > '.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.` > '.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.` > |/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\| > V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/b060aeaa/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 11:23:44 +0000 > From: via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > < > dcdcfe0df3a1aa49899e63411a4662de17218...@txg-svex14.corp.eos.l-3com.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I agree with you, Marvin. > > On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to the > same thing in order to get it published. > > No harm in that. > > Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since > attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along > with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > > “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > > One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > > > A report is a report. > > > My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the > TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > > Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How > does the TSA look? > > > Mark > > > From: Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Marvin Miller via Texascavers > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > To: Heather Tucek; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > > For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS > News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - > as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, > etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. > That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, > and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They > were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead > picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers > across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and > do interesting things. > > I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in > a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and > submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the > editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and > publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and > the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/41dfd66c/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 06:51:36 -0500 > From: Bill Bentley via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: [email protected], [email protected], > [email protected], [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Mark, The Texascavers and all my mailing lists do allow attachments, > We are finally getting into the 1990's technology... > :) > Bill > > On 7/31/2014 6:23 AM, via Texascavers wrote: > > > > I agree with you, Marvin. > > > > On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to > > the same thing in order to get it published. > > > > No harm in that. > > > > Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, > > since attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos > > to go along with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > > > > “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > > > > One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > > > > A report is a report. > > > > My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is > > the TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > > > > Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. > > How does the TSA look? > > > > Mark > > > > *From:*Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] *On > > Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > > *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > > > > For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > > discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of > > the NSS News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. > > Buford's method - as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on > > various blogs, email lists, etc. across the nation and compiling the > > interesting bits in his column. That is how a Colorado Bend trip > > report, a Government Canyon trip report, and a report on the latest > > Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They were not sent to the > > News as an article to be published but were instead picked up by > > Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers across > > the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and > > do interesting things. > > > > I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > > Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective > > projects in a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures > > and maps and submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great > > thing. If the editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the > > email list and publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to > > support the magazine and the TSS and news about caving in Texas > > wherever it appears. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/bd5d26dc/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:22:13 -0500 > From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: David <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] $ 500 offer > Message-ID: > < > cajfdpxvakyzygmucdgpqsbnb3yzvbhrg-kwagoedaqbkewu...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Wow! Another epistle from Bockbeer. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:19 PM, David via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > I would like to propose that the TSA sell to me outright The Texas Caver. > > I offer a price of $ 500. This would include all future legal > > rights to the name, "The > > Texas Caver," along with any profits, and I would be free to do with the > > magazine as I wished, such as sell it, rename it, operate it, etc. > > > > Then the TSA could focus its efforts on the defunct TSA Activities > > Newsletter, ( R.I.P.) > > > > > > > > David Locklear > > ( probably not even a TSA member at the moment ) > > NSS # 27639 > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/9782e2cf/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:25:54 -0500 > From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Peter Jones <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] CREE lights > Message-ID: > < > cajfdpxurk6nx45i+uot+cc_15rqbpc3wheqqdiqkhfxaqgr...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > And I still use a carbide lamp though not often. It can be used to cook a > can of beans. But then the new world of cavers eat that dry stuff that you > just add water to and shake. No caver stews I am sure, though we ate a lot > of that and so did the Mexican dogs at Golendrinas after the basketball > game between cavers and kids. Final score Kids 40 Cavers Zero. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Peter Jones via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Not with headlamps, only as regular house incandescent/CFL lamp > > replacements. We like them because they are cheap ($4 at Home Depot for > > the 60 W version) and are dimmable to a certain extent. They seem well > > made and with luck will last longer as lamps than I will as a human > being. > > With power output that you mention on the headlamps, we call them > > formation burners. You could topple Goliath with one sweep of that beam > > light!!! > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Bill Bentley wrote: > > > > Greetings, > > Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other > > wise... > > It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And > > leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary > > though... > > It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 > > hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... > > Bill > > > > <cree1.jpg><cree2.jpg>_______________________________________________ > > SWR mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr > > > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/1f1840f2/attachment-0001.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: SITDCP Card 2010.tif > Type: image/tiff > Size: 212460 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/1f1840f2/attachment-0001.tif > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:07:07 -0600 > From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Bill Bentley <[email protected]>, Cavetex > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > < > cagm7t+c6+kqax00t5g0t6kzexmynys3ssbj9mocinoot432...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Yeah, we are both allowing larger attachments now, as long as it's not > abused. > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 5:51 AM, Bill Bentley via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Mark, The Texascavers and all my mailing lists do allow attachments, > > We are finally getting into the 1990's technology... > > :) > > Bill > > > > > > On 7/31/2014 6:23 AM, via Texascavers wrote: > > > > I agree with you, Marvin. > > > > > > > > On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to > the > > same thing in order to get it published. > > > > > > > > No harm in that. > > > > > > > > Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since > > attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go > along > > with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > > > > > > > > “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > > > > > > > > One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > > > > > > > > > > > > A report is a report. > > > > > > > > > > > > My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the > > TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > > > > > > > > Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How > > does the TSA look? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Texascavers [mailto:[email protected] > > <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via > > Texascavers > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > > *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > > > > > > > > For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > > discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the > NSS > > News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - > > as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email > lists, > > etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. > > That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, > > and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They > > were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead > > picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. > Cavers > > across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving > and > > do interesting things. > > > > > > > > I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > > Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects > in > > a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and > > submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the > > editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and > > publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and > > the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | > http://[email protected] | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetexhttp://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/2a9a947e/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:07:58 -0500 > From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Katherine Arens <[email protected]>, Texas Cavers > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > Message-ID: > <CAA_AXMixVO0mcj8bDFFX2PWVgJyF4jhf= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > We can't print without people's permission. The problem is, people will put > quips on Facebook or whatever, and then when we ask to print it, they say > "Oh, I'll send you a better one for the Caver", and then they never do. > > If we want an editor that swims around all the forums and emails and mucks > through all the internet banality just to find that tiny little trip report > in amongst all the crap, we need to pay them a living wage. It takes a lot > of time to go through all the postings everywhere, and when you are a > volunteer, there's just no time for that. > > > On 30 July 2014 23:47, Katherine Arens via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > What is being suggested through some of this thread is not bad, == and > > it’s what happens for “Mexico News” in AMCS: take what’s posted on other > > media (printed in other places), and use as short notes, with the editor > > filling them out. > > > > And then use spell check . . . > > > > TSA and the Caver have always cycled; not gone under. Sometimes people > > write, and other times cave. Pay attention and devote some time to the > > other side of the fence. IF it went digital it could collect the now > LARGE > > numbers of videos on people’s phones, ask for voice-over narratives. > > > > new media; new opportunities. > > > > > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Tsk tsk... > > > > It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways > > too ;-) > > > > -Stefan > > ________________________________________ > > > > Jerry. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] > > <[email protected]>>> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, > > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that > needs > > attention. > > > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at > > a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I > should > > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in > any > > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > > . . . . > > > > > > ************************ > > Katherine Arens Office Phone: (512) 232-6363 > > [email protected] Dept. Phone: (512) 471-4123 > > Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025 > > 2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location: Burdine 336 > > University of Texas at Austin Office: Burdine 320 > > Austin, TX 78712-1802 > > > > -. .- > > _..-'( )`-.._ > > ./'. '||\\. (\_/) .//||` .`\. > > ./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )O O( ..|//||||`.`|.`\. > > ./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`" '` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\. > > ./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. . |||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\. > > /'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\ > > '.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.` > > '.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.` > > |/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\| > > V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > > > -- > *Go find out!* > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > [email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/7871b293/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:11:08 -0500 > From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Alman Mark <[email protected]>, Texas Cavers > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > < > caa_axmj-xmppsaqy68h6e6afvegrmm789z3f5k2cf7tp6xi...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Mark, the TSA has 180 current members. > > > On 31 July 2014 06:23, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I agree with you, Marvin. > > > > > > > > On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to > the > > same thing in order to get it published. > > > > > > > > No harm in that. > > > > > > > > Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since > > attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go > along > > with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > > > > > > > > “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > > > > > > > > One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > > > > > > > > > > > > A report is a report. > > > > > > > > > > > > My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the > > TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > > > > > > > > Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How > > does the TSA look? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] *On > > Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > > *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected] > > > > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > > > > > > > > For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > > discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the > NSS > > News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - > > as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email > lists, > > etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. > > That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, > > and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They > > were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead > > picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. > Cavers > > across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving > and > > do interesting things. > > > > > > > > I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > > Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects > in > > a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and > > submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the > > editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and > > publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and > > the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. > > > > > > -- > *Go find out!* > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > [email protected] > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/777dab06/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:14:54 -0600 > From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Cavetex <[email protected]> > Subject: [Texascavers] Mailing List update and bounce information > Message-ID: > < > cagm7t+bnokgpcexs_yukrhm4cytuqdso0wqvkehmgpxp2+x...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > First off, my apologies to those of you who are getting messages about > bounced messages and possible removal from the list. > > I don't do this for a living, meaning, I don't take care of email servers, > my job is networking and telephony, but I do this for a hobby, started off > just buying my own domain and learning how to host my own email. Long > story short, I'm learning as I go and adapting to industry changes. > > Yahoo, AOL, Hotmail and the other big name email providers keep making > changes, and some of these changes think that our email is spam. > > That's why I've made some behind the scenes changes, and some you've > noticed, like the reply-to and how the list displays. It's a necessary > evil, but needed. > > I had an error in my records that I found this morning, and while it may > take a few days to get the system flushed out of existing email through the > big providers, I'm hoping I've licked the problem and things will go > smoother now. > > If you see any error messages, bounce notifications, etc, please forward > them to me. > > As I said in another message, but just to clarify, we now allow larger > attachments to the mailing list. I don't think we have anyone left on > dial-up anymore, but please don't abuse it, if I get too many complaints, > I'll have to lower the size allowed. > > As always, let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns > Charles > texascavers mailing list admin > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/f1223469/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:16:18 -0600 > From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Heather Tucek <[email protected]>, Cavetex > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > <CAGm7T+BzsN= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of out > of state members on the mailing list. > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Mark, the TSA has 180 current members. > > > > > > On 31 July 2014 06:23, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> I agree with you, Marvin. > >> > >> > >> > >> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to > >> the same thing in order to get it published. > >> > >> > >> > >> No harm in that. > >> > >> > >> > >> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, > since > >> attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go > along > >> with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > >> > >> > >> > >> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > >> > >> > >> > >> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> A report is a report. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is > the > >> TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > >> > >> > >> > >> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How > >> does the TSA look? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] *On > >> Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers > >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > >> *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected] > >> > >> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > >> > >> > >> > >> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > >> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the > NSS > >> News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method > - > >> as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email > lists, > >> etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. > >> That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip > report, > >> and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They > >> were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead > >> picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. > Cavers > >> across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving > and > >> do interesting things. > >> > >> > >> > >> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > >> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective > projects in > >> a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and > >> submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the > >> editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and > >> publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine > and > >> the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > *Go find out!* > > -Heather Tuček > > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > > NSS 59660 > > (512) 773-1348 > > [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/687ab7bf/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 30 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 11:21:10 -0400 > From: Joe Ranzau via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > < > caaqsbitcs1k1vor4e_y203nhcjemhbkcjcvzv-5kusrhirw...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Ediger gives a nice talk about why the TSA really should or does encompass > all people in Texas that like caves, not just the ones that pony up > membership dues. Perhaps he will post it here for our review... > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of > > out of state members on the mailing list. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Mark, the TSA has 180 current members. > >> > >> > >> On 31 July 2014 06:23, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> I agree with you, Marvin. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to > >>> the same thing in order to get it published. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> No harm in that. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, > >>> since attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos > to go > >>> along with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> A report is a report. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is > >>> the TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How > >>> does the TSA look? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Mark > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] *On > >>> Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers > >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > >>> *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected] > >>> > >>> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > >>> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of > the NSS > >>> News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's > method - > >>> as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email > lists, > >>> etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his > column. > >>> That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip > report, > >>> and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. > They > >>> were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were > instead > >>> picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. > Cavers > >>> across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go > caving and > >>> do interesting things. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > >>> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective > projects in > >>> a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and > >>> submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the > >>> editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and > >>> publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine > and > >>> the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> *Go find out!* > >> -Heather Tuček > >> UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > >> TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > >> NSS 59660 > >> (512) 773-1348 > >> [email protected] > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > >> [email protected] | Archives: > >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > [email protected] | Archives: > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/7964247e/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 31 > Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:48:57 +0000 > From: via Texascavers <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > Message-ID: > < > dcdcfe0df3a1aa49899e63411a4662de17218...@txg-svex14.corp.eos.l-3com.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Thanks, Heather and Charles, for the info and for all of your hard work > for the caving community, of which you are paid so handsomely! ☺ > > Oh, and since we’re talking numbers and since I’m one of the > Administrators for the TSA Facebook page, it has 682 members (!), FWIW. > > > Mark > > > > From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:16 AM > To: Heather Tucek; Cavetex > Cc: Alman, Mark @ ESG - WSS - IRP > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > > As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of > out of state members on the mailing list. > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > Mark, the TSA has 180 current members. > > > On 31 July 2014 06:23, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > > My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the > TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > > Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How > does the TSA look? > > > Mark > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/f36abb3b/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 39 > ****************************************** >
