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Today's Topics:
1. My scrolling finger is worn out! (via Texascavers)
2. Re: The Printed Word (via Texascavers)
3. Natural Trap Cave (Mixon Bill via Texascavers)
4. CREE lights (Bill Bentley via Texascavers)
5. Re: [Ilspeleo] CREE lights (Phil Goldman via Texascavers)
6. Re: [SWR] CREE lights (Peter Jones via Texascavers)
7. Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers)
8. The Texas Caver (Mixon Bill via Texascavers)
9. NPR Article Fossils in Wyoming Cave (Denise P via Texascavers)
10. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Loving via Texascavers)
11. Re: Texas Caver (c via Texascavers)
12. Re: The Texas Caver (Jill Orr via Texascavers)
13. Re: Texas Caver (Jacqueline Thomas via Texascavers)
14. Re: The Texas Caver (via Texascavers)
15. Re: The Texas Caver (Charles Loving via Texascavers)
16. Re: The Texas Caver (George-Paul Richmann via Texascavers)
17. Re: Texas Caver (Marvin Miller via Texascavers)
18. $ 500 offer (David via Texascavers)
19. Re: The Texas Caver (Stefan Creaser via Texascavers)
20. Re: The Texas Caver (Katherine Arens via Texascavers)
21. Re: Texas Caver (via Texascavers)
22. Re: Texas Caver (Bill Bentley via Texascavers)
23. Re: $ 500 offer (Charles Loving via Texascavers)
24. Re: [SWR] CREE lights (Charles Loving via Texascavers)
25. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers)
26. Re: The Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers)
27. Re: Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers)
28. Mailing List update and bounce information
(Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers)
29. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers)
30. Re: Texas Caver (Joe Ranzau via Texascavers)
31. Re: Texas Caver (via Texascavers)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:15:26 -0400
From: via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] My scrolling finger is worn out!
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In a message dated 7/30/2014 11:31:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Geeze, Louise! (Not you, Louise.) Can't you people trim your posts? My
scrolling finger is worn out! And why am I getting 5 TC digests in a
single day? (Actually postmarked within
90 minutes...) Shouldn't they be going out once, at midnight?
Alex
Thank you Alex. Allow me to add that no one should ever post a mystery
link, much less inexplicably respond to whatever was in the mystery link.
Aside from bad manners, I believe this babbling bullshit is the inevitable
result of the proliferation of social media through hand held electronic
devices, a disease which is dumbing down both our communications and
ourselves. As a result I am just about to give up on this list and the others
to
which I subscribe.
Try this: Sit down ONCE A DAY at your computer (Not your cell phone!) in
the hope that something interesting has been posted. If and when you choose
to respond begin by stripping each and every impertinent item from the post
then respond in a cogent manner using complete sentences with correct
punctuation. It is not difficult to do so. The fundamentals of this technique
are taught to grade school children.
Dare I suggest an attempt at craft? Is it too much to hope that I might
occasionally be treated to the artful retelling of a tale, or perhaps a
witticism? I would prefer a description of events more elucidating than,
"...it
was dark. We turned left and then we turned right".
Most of you are old farts, you have plenty of time, so try doing it right!
Sleazeweazel
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 11:20:37 -0500
From: via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Cc: Lyndon Tiu <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I think that would be great, OMW !
Jerry.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 30, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Charles Loving via Texascavers
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Not an article a comic book page. The Advetures of Karst Walker and Mull and
> Doon. The quest for the Holy Carbide Light. A continuation of the adventures
> of Nurdoo and Zeplin who appeared in the NSS News many eons ago.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> Oh chill, I'm just kidding ... ;-)
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek <[email protected]> wrote:
> Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos.
> Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we want
> to give up all rights to everything contained in it.
>
>
> On 30 July 2014 06:48, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due
> to ... and social networking."
>
> Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-)
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> Should read “NSS members”.
>
>
>
> It’s awfully early. ;)
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> via Texascavers
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM
> To: [email protected]; [email protected]
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
>
>
> Agreed, Mimi.
>
>
>
>
>
> When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact
> that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH
> publications.
>
>
>
> Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa.
>
>
>
>
>
> Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a
> good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA.
>
>
>
> Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to
> apathy and social networking.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hopefully, I'm wrong.
>
>
>
> Y'all's thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
> Mimi Jasek via Texascavers
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM
> To: TexasCavers
> Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word
>
>
>
> How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on
> paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas
> Caver. Something very wrong somewhere.
>
>
>
> Mimi Jasek
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com [email protected]
> | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
>
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
>
>
> --
> Go find out!
> -Heather Tuček
> UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
> TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
> NSS 59660
> (512) 773-1348
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:11:14 -0500
From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Natural Trap Cave
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
For some mysterious reason, there has been a lot of comment about the
"reopening" of Natural Trap Cave in Wyoming. I trust everyone has
noticed that the cave has not actually be reopened for _caving_, but
just for renewed paleontological work, which is not at all the same
thing. -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:20:57 -0500
From: Bill Bentley via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Cave Texas
<[email protected]>, MoCaves <[email protected]>,
[email protected], [email protected], Cave List <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
Subject: [Texascavers] CREE lights
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Greetings,
Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other
wise...
It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And
leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary
though...
It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for
48 hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it
was...
Bill
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:41:41 -0500
From: Phil Goldman via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], Ilspeleo Cavers Mailing List <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Cave Texas
<[email protected]>, Cave List <[email protected]>,
[email protected], [email protected], MoCaves
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [Ilspeleo] CREE lights
Message-ID:
<caesazmeg1d+txdvkcnt37c6zm0gu_u4b3vurxj78htwgwtq...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
You may want to jump on to the FaceBook Electric Cave Lights Group. There
has been quite a bit of discussion around the "Chinese" cree lights. They
aren't the real deal and the lumins are way off nor do they meet up their
claims of shock proof and waterproof. But they are cheap! If you do the
math (and I don't have the numbers in front of me), to run the newer
generation Crees at 3k lumin (which is beyond their design spec) for 48
hours would require a car battery. But you wouldn't get that long anways,
because the fire department would have arrived to put your smoldering head
out :-)
I'm a HUGE fan of the Cree lights, specifically the Zebra. Although there
are other very good brands, like Fenix, Black Diamond, Petzl & etc. All
have slightly different features and functionalities and costs. I
personally feel the Zebra is the best bang for the buck and I can cave 12
hours on one battery if I'm conservative. 1k lumin is so much light in the
cave environment, it's ridiculous :-)
Phil Goldman
Chairman, Windy City Grotto
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Bill Bentley <[email protected]> wrote:
> Greetings,
> Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other
> wise...
> It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And
> leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary
> though...
> It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48
> hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was...
> Bill
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ilspeleo mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ilspeleo
> _______________________________________________
> This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>
>
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 13:59:25 -0400
From: Peter Jones via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], SWR Cavers Mailing List <[email protected]>
Cc: Cave Texas <[email protected]>, Cave List
<[email protected]>, MoCaves <[email protected]>, [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] CREE lights
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Not with headlamps, only as regular house incandescent/CFL lamp replacements.
We like them because they are cheap ($4 at Home Depot for the 60 W version) and
are dimmable to a certain extent. They seem well made and with luck will last
longer as lamps than I will as a human being. With power output that you
mention on the headlamps, we call them formation burners. You could topple
Goliath with one sweep of that beam light!!!
Peter
On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Bill Bentley wrote:
> Greetings,
> Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other wise...
> It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And
> leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary
> though...
> It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48
> hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was...
> Bill
>
> <cree1.jpg><cree2.jpg>_______________________________________________
> SWR mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
> _______________________________________________
> This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:04:15 -0500
From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<CAA_AXMiYm6bP=c8jag9kq6b2qx1eapjhxpbgxlpt+e8chsw...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know,
just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know
what? Worth it.
The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May
issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only
finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in
trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if
there's nothing to put in it.
I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past
couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips
this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant
amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding
photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great
publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS
Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why?
Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!!
There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why
isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national
magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're
going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email!
(I've seen this a number of times, not just this month).
Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail
anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the
problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't
want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone
copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and
grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!!
TL;DR
Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your
front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are.
/end rant
--
*Go find out!*
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
[email protected]
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:51:02 -0500
From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am
moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position
to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is
already oversubscribed.
The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture
magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've
gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including
in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to
find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as
much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos,
printed at reasonable sizes, to look good.
The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything
about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of
newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an
editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the
recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his
caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I
had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet,
uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or
TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT
Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver
should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital
archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the
Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare
TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong.
There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media
or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest
AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like,
supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are
reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different
form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or
Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the
TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas
Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one,
fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words,
but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have
appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published?
Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from
them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your
newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least
by Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention.
Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS
News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or
the author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version
for the Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive
Vice-President is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own
the copyright to anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should
certainly always go on record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited
to cut out semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like?
Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there.
It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for
material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But
that doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.)
The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent
record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include
as much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course
some discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for
breakfast during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing,
which is too much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------
I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:08:38 +0000
From: Denise P via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: TexasCavers <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] NPR Article Fossils in Wyoming Cave
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Heard about this on NPR. Not sure if it's been posted already. Any cavers
involved?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/us-usa-fossils-wyoming-idUSKBN0FU07T20140725
Cheers,
Denise
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:20:01 -0500
From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Heather Tucek <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<cajfdpxshudb1-fwydupimkra123magkbd8i5hksyuashckg...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know,
> just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know
> what? Worth it.
>
>
>
> The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May
> issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only
> finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in
> trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if
> there's nothing to put in it.
>
> I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past
> couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips
> this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant
> amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding
> photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great
> publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS
> Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why?
> Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!!
>
> There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why?
> Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the
> national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If
> you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your
> email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month).
>
> Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail
> anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the
> problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't
> want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone
> copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and
> grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!!
>
>
>
>
> TL;DR
> Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on
> your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are.
>
> /end rant
>
>
> --
> *Go find out!*
> -Heather Tuček
> UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
> TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
> NSS 59660
> (512) 773-1348
> [email protected]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
--
Charlie Loving
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Message: 11
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:29:45 +0000
From: c via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]?="
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
loving,
quit stealing grenades from Uvalde. make your own
BO
Sent from Windows Mail
From: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:20 PM
To: Heather Tucek, [email protected]
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers
<[email protected]> wrote:
As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, just
in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know what? Worth
it.
The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May issue of
the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only finally
being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in trip reports
to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if there's nothing to put
in it.
I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past
couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips this
month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant amount of
her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding photos, etc. All
the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great publication. We won one award
at the Publication Salon at the NSS Convention. ONE. How many did other
organizations win? You know why? Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!!
There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why
isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national
magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're going
to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! (I've seen
this a number of times, not just this month).
Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail
anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the problem,
and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't want to publish
something because you think you can't write, have someone copyedit it for you
first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and grammatical errors, as
long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!!
TL;DR
Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your
front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are.
/end rant
--
Go find out!
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
[email protected]
_______________________________________________
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
[email protected] | Archives:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
--
Charlie Loving
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 00:31:20 +0200
From: Jill Orr via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: "'Mixon Bill'" <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Bill,
I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs
attention.
Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at a
picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications
professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least
listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should
listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any
endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to
increase my fairly decent effort to something greater.
Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for
material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", perhaps you
will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I
could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip
leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe I
could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down at
their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be
scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that
could be related to Texas caving.
Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers to
submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and work
harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and influence
people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will.
jill orr
210.399.6762
jillorr.businesscatalyst.com
Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to
comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to be
part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed.
The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine,
but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten barely
reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average the
front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas Caver
could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase in cost
and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look good.
The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about
Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters to
know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting
material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of
thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on
Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to get
to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook
or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT Geology
Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be going on
paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if you're into that
sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological Survey does not
archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope
I'm wrong.
There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or
elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS
Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by
different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various
places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading various
project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good about posting
reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the
Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one,
fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not if
it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have appeared. Are there not
some Texas grotto newsletters still published?
Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for
The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your
newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas
cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention.
Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News about
Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author might be
willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS policy
claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to reprint,
but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the News.) TSA
meeting minutes should certainly always go on record there. TSS board minutes,
perhaps edited to cut out semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the
like?
Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there.
It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and
waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't entirely
excuse your ignoring the plea.)
The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent record
of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as much
_information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some discretion
might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast during your
caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too much of what we've
been getting. -- Bill Mixon
----------------------------------------
I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use,
save:
Personal: [email protected]
AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
_______________________________________________
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com [email protected] |
Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:13:52 -0500
From: Jacqueline Thomas via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
No, No, Nooooooo! Save them for the Caver, Mr. Loving, sir, please!!!!
Here's an idea--
I saw multiple people do interesting things at NSS Convention and maybe no one
wants to write a "real trip report" but multiple brief vignettes by several
attendees, collected into a "glimpses of Convention" article could be pretty
entertaining. I'd write up my favorite "fooled me" moment.
Any takers?
Jacqui
On Jul 30, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know,
> just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know what?
> Worth it.
>
>
>
> The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May issue
> of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only finally
> being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in trip
> reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if there's
> nothing to put in it.
>
> I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past
> couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips this
> month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant amount of
> her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding photos, etc.
> All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great publication. We won one
> award at the Publication Salon at the NSS Convention. ONE. How many did other
> organizations win? You know why? Because they actually have stuff to
> publish!!!!
>
> There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why
> isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national
> magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're going
> to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! (I've seen
> this a number of times, not just this month).
>
> Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail
> anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the problem,
> and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't want to
> publish something because you think you can't write, have someone copyedit it
> for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and grammatical
> errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> TL;DR
> Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your
> front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are.
>
> /end rant
>
>
>
> --
> Go find out!
> -Heather Tuček
> UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
> TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
> NSS 59660
> (512) 773-1348
> [email protected]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
> <karst walker comic.jpg><Walker 2_edited-1.jpg><Karst 1 1.jpg><KW 2
> 1.jpg>_______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:34:31 -0500
From: via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Jill Orr <[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Cc: "<[email protected]>" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Ouch ! Touchy .....
Jerry.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs
> attention.
>
> Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at a
> picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications
> professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least
> listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should
> listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any
> endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to
> increase my fairly decent effort to something greater.
>
> Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for
> material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", perhaps you
> will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I
> could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip
> leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe
> I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down
> at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be
> scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that
> could be related to Texas caving.
>
> Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers
> to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and
> work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and
> influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will.
>
> jill orr
> 210.399.6762
> jillorr.businesscatalyst.com
>
> Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
>
> Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to
> comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to
> be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed.
>
> The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture
> magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten
> barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average
> the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas
> Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase
> in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look
> good.
>
> The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about
> Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters
> to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting
> material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of
> thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on
> Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to
> get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your
> Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT
> Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be
> going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if
> you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological
> Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of
> permanent value; I hope I'm wrong.
>
> There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or
> elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS
> Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by
> different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various
> places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading
> various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good
> about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely
> included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten
> to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand
> words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have
> appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published?
> Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for
> The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your
> newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas
> cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention.
> Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News
> about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author
> might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS
> policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to
> reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the
> News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on record there. TSS
> board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out semi-confidential dealings with
> agencies and the like?
> Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there.
> It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and
> waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't entirely
> excuse your ignoring the plea.)
>
> The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent record
> of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as much
> _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some discretion
> might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast during your
> caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too much of what
> we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use,
> save:
> Personal: [email protected]
> AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com [email protected]
> | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 19:06:55 -0500
From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: jerryatkin <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<CAJfDpxu80k=fstk5gkqzsc1htfzx3wgpomuonowlhkatzuh...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write
but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Ouch ! Touchy .....
>
> Jerry.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Bill,
> > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that
> needs attention.
> >
> > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort
> at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications
> professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least
> listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should
> listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any
> endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to
> increase my fairly decent effort to something greater.
> >
> > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea
> for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.",
> perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just
> an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to
> all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on
> in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to
> and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after
> all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for
> postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving.
> >
> > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage
> cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality
> publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win
> friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will.
> >
> > jill orr
> > 210.399.6762
> > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com
> >
> > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
> >
> > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am
> moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to
> volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already
> oversubscribed.
> >
> > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture
> magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten
> barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the
> average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text.
> The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at
> no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable
> sizes, to look good.
> >
> > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything
> about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of
> newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's
> job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my
> time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by
> posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles
> through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses
> you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the
> NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the
> Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal
> digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the
> Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers
> posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong.
> >
> > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or
> elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS
> Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by
> different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from
> various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people
> leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been
> good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they
> routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can
> be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth
> a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought
> to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still
> published?
> > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them
> for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your
> > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by
> Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention.
> > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS
> News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the
> author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the
> Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President
> is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to
> anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on
> record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out
> semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like?
> > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there.
> > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material
> and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't
> entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.)
> >
> > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent
> record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as
> much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some
> discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast
> during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too
> much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon
> > ----------------------------------------
> > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
> > ----------------------------------------
> > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term
> use, save:
> > Personal: [email protected]
> > AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> > [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
--
Charlie Loving
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Message: 16
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 20:46:55 -0400
From: George-Paul Richmann via Texascavers
<[email protected]>
To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>, TSA Cavers
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<cabsr2qh87_1voauvhuohomujbfs-o72vcxorfhakfture60...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority;
they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of
exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict
their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize
their teachers.”
― Socrates <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/275648.Socrates>
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write
> but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart.
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ouch ! Touchy .....
>>
>> Jerry.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Bill,
>> > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that
>> needs attention.
>> >
>> > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort
>> at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications
>> professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least
>> listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should
>> listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any
>> endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to
>> increase my fairly decent effort to something greater.
>> >
>> > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea
>> for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.",
>> perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just
>> an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to
>> all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on
>> in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to
>> and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after
>> all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for
>> postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving.
>> >
>> > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage
>> cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality
>> publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win
>> friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will.
>> >
>> > jill orr
>> > 210.399.6762
>> > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com
>> >
>> > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
>> >
>> > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am
>> moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to
>> volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already
>> oversubscribed.
>> >
>> > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture
>> magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten
>> barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the
>> average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text.
>> The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at
>> no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable
>> sizes, to look good.
>> >
>> > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything
>> about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of
>> newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's
>> job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my
>> time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by
>> posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles
>> through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses
>> you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the
>> NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the
>> Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal
>> digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the
>> Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers
>> posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong.
>> >
>> > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or
>> elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS
>> Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by
>> different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from
>> various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people
>> leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been
>> good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they
>> routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can
>> be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth
>> a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought
>> to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still
>> published?
>> > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from
>> them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your
>> > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by
>> Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention.
>> > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS
>> News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the
>> author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the
>> Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President
>> is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to
>> anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on
>> record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out
>> semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like?
>> > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there.
>> > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for
>> material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that
>> doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.)
>> >
>> > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent
>> record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as
>> much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some
>> discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast
>> during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too
>> much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon
>> > ----------------------------------------
>> > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
>> > ----------------------------------------
>> > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for
>> long-term use, save:
>> > Personal: [email protected]
>> > AMCS: [email protected] or [email protected]
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> [email protected] | Archives:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
>> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> > [email protected] | Archives:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
>> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> _______________________________________________
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> [email protected] | Archives:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Charlie Loving
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
--
George-Paul Richmann
(513) 490-3100
[email protected]
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Message: 17
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 22:19:01 -0500
From: Marvin Miller via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Heather Tucek <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<caf-ygdw9m799fnrbmxe8p_bct25_4mqtfbukpawazx8bksj...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good
discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS
News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method -
as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists,
etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column.
That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report,
and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They
were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead
picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers
across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and
do interesting things.
I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for
Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in
a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and
submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the
editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and
publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and
the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know,
> just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know
> what? Worth it.
>
>
>
> The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May
> issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only
> finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in
> trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if
> there's nothing to put in it.
>
> I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past
> couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips
> this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant
> amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding
> photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great
> publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS
> Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why?
> Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!!
>
> There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why?
> Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the
> national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If
> you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your
> email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month).
>
> Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail
> anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the
> problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't
> want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone
> copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and
> grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!!
>
>
>
>
> TL;DR
> Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on
> your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are.
>
> /end rant
>
>
> --
> *Go find out!*
> -Heather Tuček
> UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
> TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
> NSS 59660
> (512) 773-1348
> [email protected]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
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Message: 18
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 23:19:02 -0500
From: David via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: CaveTex <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] $ 500 offer
Message-ID:
<caecwswmvdrvsntafcvtx0cu63gjphveo5pc6ua9lp1srymo...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I would like to propose that the TSA sell to me outright The Texas Caver.
I offer a price of $ 500. This would include all future legal
rights to the name, "The
Texas Caver," along with any profits, and I would be free to do with the
magazine as I wished, such as sell it, rename it, operate it, etc.
Then the TSA could focus its efforts on the defunct TSA Activities
Newsletter, ( R.I.P.)
David Locklear
( probably not even a TSA member at the moment )
NSS # 27639
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:38:02 +0000
From: Stefan Creaser via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Charles Loving <[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>,
jerryatkin <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252
Tsk tsk...
It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways too
;-)
-Stefan
________________________________________
From: Texascavers [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles
Loving via Texascavers [[email protected]]
Sent: 30 July 2014 19:06
To: jerryatkin; Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write but
the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Ouch ! Touchy .....
Jerry.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs
> attention.
>
> Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at a
> picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications
> professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least
> listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should
> listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any
> endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to
> increase my fairly decent effort to something greater.
>
> Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for
> material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", perhaps you
> will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I
> could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip
> leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe
> I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down
> at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be
> scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that
> could be related to Texas caving.
>
> Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers
> to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and
> work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and
> influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will.
>
> jill orr
> 210.399.6762<tel:210.399.6762>
> jillorr.businesscatalyst.com<http://jillorr.businesscatalyst.com>
>
> Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
>
> Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to
> comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to
> be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed.
>
> The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture
> magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten
> barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average
> the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas
> Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase
> in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look
> good.
>
> The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about
> Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters
> to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting
> material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of
> thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on
> Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to
> get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your
> Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT
> Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be
> going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if
> you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological
> Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of
> permanent value; I hope I'm wrong.
>
> There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or
> elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS
> Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by
> different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various
> places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading
> various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good
> about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely
> included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten
> to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand
> words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have
> appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published?
> Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for
> The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your
> newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas
> cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention.
> Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News
> about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author
> might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS
> policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to
> reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the
> News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on record there. TSS
> board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out semi-confidential dealings with
> agencies and the like?
> Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there.
> It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and
> waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't entirely
> excuse your ignoring the plea.)
>
> The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent record
> of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as much
> _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some discretion
> might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast during your
> caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too much of what
> we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon
> ----------------------------------------
> I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying.
> ----------------------------------------
> You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use,
> save:
> Personal: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> AMCS: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> or
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
_______________________________________________
Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> | Archives:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
--
Charlie Loving
-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
medium. Thank you.
ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered
in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590
ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:47:39 +0000
From: Katherine Arens via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Texas Cavers <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
What is being suggested through some of this thread is not bad, == and it’s
what happens for “Mexico News” in AMCS: take what’s posted on other media
(printed in other places), and use as short notes, with the editor filling them
out.
And then use spell check . . .
TSA and the Caver have always cycled; not gone under. Sometimes people write,
and other times cave. Pay attention and devote some time to the other side of
the fence. IF it went digital it could collect the now LARGE numbers of videos
on people’s phones, ask for voice-over narratives.
new media; new opportunities.
On Jul 30, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Tsk tsk...
It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways too
;-)
-Stefan
________________________________________
Jerry.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Hi Bill,
I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs
attention.
Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at a
picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications
professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least
listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should
listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any
endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to
increase my fairly decent effort to something greater.
. . . .
************************
Katherine Arens Office Phone: (512) 232-6363
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Dept. Phone: (512)
471-4123
Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location: Burdine 336
University of Texas at Austin Office: Burdine 320
Austin, TX 78712-1802
-. .-
_..-'( )`-.._
./'. '||\\. (\_/) .//||` .`\.
./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )O O( ..|//||||`.`|.`\.
./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`" '` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\.
./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. . |||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\.
/'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\
'.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.`
'.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.`
|/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\|
V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V
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Message: 21
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 11:23:44 +0000
From: via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<dcdcfe0df3a1aa49899e63411a4662de17218...@txg-svex14.corp.eos.l-3com.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I agree with you, Marvin.
On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to the same
thing in order to get it published.
No harm in that.
Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since
attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along
with their offerings to further flesh out their report.
“Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words.
One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim.
A report is a report.
My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the TSA
doing, as in membership numbers and trends.
Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How does
the TSA look?
Mark
From: Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Marvin Miller via Texascavers
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM
To: Heather Tucek; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good discussion -
the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS News is in
Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - as I understand
it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, etc. across the
nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. That is how a Colorado
Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, and a report on the latest
Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They were not sent to the News as an
article to be published but were instead picked up by Buford off of this very
email listserve. That's great. Cavers across the nation and the world need to
see that Texas cavers go caving and do interesting things.
I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for
Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in a
bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and submit an
article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the editors of the
Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and publish it, more power to
them. I'll continue to support the magazine and the TSS and news about caving
in Texas wherever it appears.
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Message: 22
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 06:51:36 -0500
From: Bill Bentley via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], [email protected],
[email protected], [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Mark, The Texascavers and all my mailing lists do allow attachments,
We are finally getting into the 1990's technology...
:)
Bill
On 7/31/2014 6:23 AM, via Texascavers wrote:
>
> I agree with you, Marvin.
>
> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to
> the same thing in order to get it published.
>
> No harm in that.
>
> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and,
> since attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos
> to go along with their offerings to further flesh out their report.
>
> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words.
>
> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim.
>
> A report is a report.
>
> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is
> the TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends.
>
> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS.
> How does the TSA look?
>
> Mark
>
> *From:*Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] *On
> Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM
> *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
>
> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good
> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of
> the NSS News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column.
> Buford's method - as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on
> various blogs, email lists, etc. across the nation and compiling the
> interesting bits in his column. That is how a Colorado Bend trip
> report, a Government Canyon trip report, and a report on the latest
> Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They were not sent to the
> News as an article to be published but were instead picked up by
> Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers across
> the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and
> do interesting things.
>
> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for
> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective
> projects in a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures
> and maps and submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great
> thing. If the editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the
> email list and publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to
> support the magazine and the TSS and news about caving in Texas
> wherever it appears.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Message: 23
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:22:13 -0500
From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: David <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] $ 500 offer
Message-ID:
<cajfdpxvakyzygmucdgpqsbnb3yzvbhrg-kwagoedaqbkewu...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Wow! Another epistle from Bockbeer.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:19 PM, David via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> I would like to propose that the TSA sell to me outright The Texas Caver.
> I offer a price of $ 500. This would include all future legal
> rights to the name, "The
> Texas Caver," along with any profits, and I would be free to do with the
> magazine as I wished, such as sell it, rename it, operate it, etc.
>
> Then the TSA could focus its efforts on the defunct TSA Activities
> Newsletter, ( R.I.P.)
>
>
>
> David Locklear
> ( probably not even a TSA member at the moment )
> NSS # 27639
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
--
Charlie Loving
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Message: 24
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:25:54 -0500
From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Peter Jones <[email protected]>, Cavers Texas
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] CREE lights
Message-ID:
<cajfdpxurk6nx45i+uot+cc_15rqbpc3wheqqdiqkhfxaqgr...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
And I still use a carbide lamp though not often. It can be used to cook a
can of beans. But then the new world of cavers eat that dry stuff that you
just add water to and shake. No caver stews I am sure, though we ate a lot
of that and so did the Mexican dogs at Golendrinas after the basketball
game between cavers and kids. Final score Kids 40 Cavers Zero.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Peter Jones via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Not with headlamps, only as regular house incandescent/CFL lamp
> replacements. We like them because they are cheap ($4 at Home Depot for
> the 60 W version) and are dimmable to a certain extent. They seem well
> made and with luck will last longer as lamps than I will as a human being.
> With power output that you mention on the headlamps, we call them
> formation burners. You could topple Goliath with one sweep of that beam
> light!!!
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Bill Bentley wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other
> wise...
> It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And
> leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary
> though...
> It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48
> hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was...
> Bill
>
> <cree1.jpg><cree2.jpg>_______________________________________________
> SWR mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr
>
> _______________________________________________
> This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
--
Charlie Loving
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Message: 25
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:07:07 -0600
From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Bill Bentley <[email protected]>, Cavetex
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<cagm7t+c6+kqax00t5g0t6kzexmynys3ssbj9mocinoot432...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Yeah, we are both allowing larger attachments now, as long as it's not
abused.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 5:51 AM, Bill Bentley via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Mark, The Texascavers and all my mailing lists do allow attachments,
> We are finally getting into the 1990's technology...
> :)
> Bill
>
>
> On 7/31/2014 6:23 AM, via Texascavers wrote:
>
> I agree with you, Marvin.
>
>
>
> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to the
> same thing in order to get it published.
>
>
>
> No harm in that.
>
>
>
> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since
> attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along
> with their offerings to further flesh out their report.
>
>
>
> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words.
>
>
>
> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim.
>
>
>
>
>
> A report is a report.
>
>
>
>
>
> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the
> TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends.
>
>
>
> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How
> does the TSA look?
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via
> Texascavers
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM
> *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
>
>
>
> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good
> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS
> News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method -
> as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists,
> etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column.
> That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report,
> and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They
> were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead
> picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers
> across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and
> do interesting things.
>
>
>
> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for
> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in
> a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and
> submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the
> editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and
> publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and
> the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://[email protected]
> | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetexhttp://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
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Message: 26
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:07:58 -0500
From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Katherine Arens <[email protected]>, Texas Cavers
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<CAA_AXMixVO0mcj8bDFFX2PWVgJyF4jhf=djm4kgxyhyau5h...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
We can't print without people's permission. The problem is, people will put
quips on Facebook or whatever, and then when we ask to print it, they say
"Oh, I'll send you a better one for the Caver", and then they never do.
If we want an editor that swims around all the forums and emails and mucks
through all the internet banality just to find that tiny little trip report
in amongst all the crap, we need to pay them a living wage. It takes a lot
of time to go through all the postings everywhere, and when you are a
volunteer, there's just no time for that.
On 30 July 2014 23:47, Katherine Arens via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> What is being suggested through some of this thread is not bad, == and
> it’s what happens for “Mexico News” in AMCS: take what’s posted on other
> media (printed in other places), and use as short notes, with the editor
> filling them out.
>
> And then use spell check . . .
>
> TSA and the Caver have always cycled; not gone under. Sometimes people
> write, and other times cave. Pay attention and devote some time to the
> other side of the fence. IF it went digital it could collect the now LARGE
> numbers of videos on people’s phones, ask for voice-over narratives.
>
> new media; new opportunities.
>
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> Tsk tsk...
>
> It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways
> too ;-)
>
> -Stefan
> ________________________________________
>
> Jerry.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers <
> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
> I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs
> attention.
>
> Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at
> a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications
> professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least
> listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should
> listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any
> endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to
> increase my fairly decent effort to something greater.
> . . . .
>
>
> ************************
> Katherine Arens Office Phone: (512) 232-6363
> [email protected] Dept. Phone: (512) 471-4123
> Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025
> 2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location: Burdine 336
> University of Texas at Austin Office: Burdine 320
> Austin, TX 78712-1802
>
> -. .-
> _..-'( )`-.._
> ./'. '||\\. (\_/) .//||` .`\.
> ./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )O O( ..|//||||`.`|.`\.
> ./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`" '` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\.
> ./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. . |||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\.
> /'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\
> '.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.`
> '.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.`
> |/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\|
> V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
--
*Go find out!*
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
[email protected]
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Message: 27
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:11:08 -0500
From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Alman Mark <[email protected]>, Texas Cavers
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<caa_axmj-xmppsaqy68h6e6afvegrmm789z3f5k2cf7tp6xi...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mark, the TSA has 180 current members.
On 31 July 2014 06:23, <[email protected]> wrote:
> I agree with you, Marvin.
>
>
>
> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to the
> same thing in order to get it published.
>
>
>
> No harm in that.
>
>
>
> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since
> attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along
> with their offerings to further flesh out their report.
>
>
>
> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words.
>
>
>
> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim.
>
>
>
>
>
> A report is a report.
>
>
>
>
>
> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the
> TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends.
>
>
>
> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How
> does the TSA look?
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] *On
> Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM
> *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected]
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
>
>
>
> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good
> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS
> News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method -
> as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists,
> etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column.
> That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report,
> and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They
> were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead
> picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers
> across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and
> do interesting things.
>
>
>
> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for
> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in
> a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and
> submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the
> editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and
> publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and
> the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears.
>
--
*Go find out!*
-Heather Tuček
UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
NSS 59660
(512) 773-1348
[email protected]
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Message: 28
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:14:54 -0600
From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Cavetex <[email protected]>
Subject: [Texascavers] Mailing List update and bounce information
Message-ID:
<cagm7t+bnokgpcexs_yukrhm4cytuqdso0wqvkehmgpxp2+x...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
First off, my apologies to those of you who are getting messages about
bounced messages and possible removal from the list.
I don't do this for a living, meaning, I don't take care of email servers,
my job is networking and telephony, but I do this for a hobby, started off
just buying my own domain and learning how to host my own email. Long
story short, I'm learning as I go and adapting to industry changes.
Yahoo, AOL, Hotmail and the other big name email providers keep making
changes, and some of these changes think that our email is spam.
That's why I've made some behind the scenes changes, and some you've
noticed, like the reply-to and how the list displays. It's a necessary
evil, but needed.
I had an error in my records that I found this morning, and while it may
take a few days to get the system flushed out of existing email through the
big providers, I'm hoping I've licked the problem and things will go
smoother now.
If you see any error messages, bounce notifications, etc, please forward
them to me.
As I said in another message, but just to clarify, we now allow larger
attachments to the mailing list. I don't think we have anyone left on
dial-up anymore, but please don't abuse it, if I get too many complaints,
I'll have to lower the size allowed.
As always, let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns
Charles
texascavers mailing list admin
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Message: 29
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:16:18 -0600
From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Heather Tucek <[email protected]>, Cavetex
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<CAGm7T+BzsN=p4kybcxtjmqrcl0jstop3ka_tmyw5plnz4p1...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of out
of state members on the mailing list.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Mark, the TSA has 180 current members.
>
>
> On 31 July 2014 06:23, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I agree with you, Marvin.
>>
>>
>>
>> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to
>> the same thing in order to get it published.
>>
>>
>>
>> No harm in that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since
>> attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along
>> with their offerings to further flesh out their report.
>>
>>
>>
>> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words.
>>
>>
>>
>> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A report is a report.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the
>> TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends.
>>
>>
>>
>> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How
>> does the TSA look?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>> Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM
>> *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected]
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
>>
>>
>>
>> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good
>> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS
>> News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method -
>> as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists,
>> etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column.
>> That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report,
>> and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They
>> were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead
>> picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers
>> across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and
>> do interesting things.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for
>> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in
>> a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and
>> submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the
>> editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and
>> publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and
>> the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Go find out!*
> -Heather Tuček
> UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
> TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
> NSS 59660
> (512) 773-1348
> [email protected]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> [email protected] | Archives:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
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Message: 30
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 11:21:10 -0400
From: Joe Ranzau via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: Cavers Texas <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<caaqsbitcs1k1vor4e_y203nhcjemhbkcjcvzv-5kusrhirw...@mail.gmail.com>
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Ediger gives a nice talk about why the TSA really should or does encompass
all people in Texas that like caves, not just the ones that pony up
membership dues. Perhaps he will post it here for our review...
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <
[email protected]> wrote:
> As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of
> out of state members on the mailing list.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Mark, the TSA has 180 current members.
>>
>>
>> On 31 July 2014 06:23, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with you, Marvin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to
>>> the same thing in order to get it published.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No harm in that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and,
>>> since attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go
>>> along with their offerings to further flesh out their report.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A report is a report.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is
>>> the TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How
>>> does the TSA look?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:[email protected]] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM
>>> *To:* Heather Tucek; [email protected]
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good
>>> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS
>>> News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method -
>>> as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists,
>>> etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column.
>>> That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report,
>>> and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They
>>> were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead
>>> picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers
>>> across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and
>>> do interesting things.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for
>>> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in
>>> a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and
>>> submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the
>>> editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and
>>> publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and
>>> the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Go find out!*
>> -Heather Tuček
>> UT Grotto, DFW Grotto
>> TSA Secretary & Membership Chair
>> NSS 59660
>> (512) 773-1348
>> [email protected]
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>> [email protected] | Archives:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 31
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:48:57 +0000
From: via Texascavers <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
Message-ID:
<dcdcfe0df3a1aa49899e63411a4662de17218...@txg-svex14.corp.eos.l-3com.com>
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Thanks, Heather and Charles, for the info and for all of your hard work for the
caving community, of which you are paid so handsomely! ☺
Oh, and since we’re talking numbers and since I’m one of the Administrators for
the TSA Facebook page, it has 682 members (!), FWIW.
Mark
From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:16 AM
To: Heather Tucek; Cavetex
Cc: Alman, Mark @ ESG - WSS - IRP
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver
As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of out of
state members on the mailing list.
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Mark, the TSA has 180 current members.
On 31 July 2014 06:23, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the TSA
doing, as in membership numbers and trends.
Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How does
the TSA look?
Mark
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