Send Texascavers mailing list submissions to texascavers@texascavers.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to texascavers-requ...@texascavers.com You can reach the person managing the list at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Texascavers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. My scrolling finger is worn out! (via Texascavers) 2. Re: The Printed Word (via Texascavers) 3. Natural Trap Cave (Mixon Bill via Texascavers) 4. CREE lights (Bill Bentley via Texascavers) 5. Re: [Ilspeleo] CREE lights (Phil Goldman via Texascavers) 6. Re: [SWR] CREE lights (Peter Jones via Texascavers) 7. Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers) 8. The Texas Caver (Mixon Bill via Texascavers) 9. NPR Article Fossils in Wyoming Cave (Denise P via Texascavers) 10. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Loving via Texascavers) 11. Re: Texas Caver (c via Texascavers) 12. Re: The Texas Caver (Jill Orr via Texascavers) 13. Re: Texas Caver (Jacqueline Thomas via Texascavers) 14. Re: The Texas Caver (via Texascavers) 15. Re: The Texas Caver (Charles Loving via Texascavers) 16. Re: The Texas Caver (George-Paul Richmann via Texascavers) 17. Re: Texas Caver (Marvin Miller via Texascavers) 18. $ 500 offer (David via Texascavers) 19. Re: The Texas Caver (Stefan Creaser via Texascavers) 20. Re: The Texas Caver (Katherine Arens via Texascavers) 21. Re: Texas Caver (via Texascavers) 22. Re: Texas Caver (Bill Bentley via Texascavers) 23. Re: $ 500 offer (Charles Loving via Texascavers) 24. Re: [SWR] CREE lights (Charles Loving via Texascavers) 25. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers) 26. Re: The Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers) 27. Re: Texas Caver (Heather Tucek via Texascavers) 28. Mailing List update and bounce information (Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers) 29. Re: Texas Caver (Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers) 30. Re: Texas Caver (Joe Ranzau via Texascavers) 31. Re: Texas Caver (via Texascavers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:15:26 -0400 From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] My scrolling finger is worn out! Message-ID: <636dc.60878a9.410a7...@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" In a message dated 7/30/2014 11:31:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, texascavers@texascavers.com writes: Geeze, Louise! (Not you, Louise.) Can't you people trim your posts? My scrolling finger is worn out! And why am I getting 5 TC digests in a single day? (Actually postmarked within 90 minutes...) Shouldn't they be going out once, at midnight? Alex Thank you Alex. Allow me to add that no one should ever post a mystery link, much less inexplicably respond to whatever was in the mystery link. Aside from bad manners, I believe this babbling bullshit is the inevitable result of the proliferation of social media through hand held electronic devices, a disease which is dumbing down both our communications and ourselves. As a result I am just about to give up on this list and the others to which I subscribe. Try this: Sit down ONCE A DAY at your computer (Not your cell phone!) in the hope that something interesting has been posted. If and when you choose to respond begin by stripping each and every impertinent item from the post then respond in a cogent manner using complete sentences with correct punctuation. It is not difficult to do so. The fundamentals of this technique are taught to grade school children. Dare I suggest an attempt at craft? Is it too much to hope that I might occasionally be treated to the artful retelling of a tale, or perhaps a witticism? I would prefer a description of events more elucidating than, "...it was dark. We turned left and then we turned right". Most of you are old farts, you have plenty of time, so try doing it right! Sleazeweazel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/bc6f6edf/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 11:20:37 -0500 From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com>, "texascavers@texascavers.com" <texascavers@texascavers.com> Cc: Lyndon Tiu <l...@alumni.sfu.ca>, Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word Message-ID: <57268341-9d7a-454c-96d4-3b629e7a0...@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I think that would be great, OMW ! Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Not an article a comic book page. The Advetures of Karst Walker and Mull and > Doon. The quest for the Holy Carbide Light. A continuation of the adventures > of Nurdoo and Zeplin who appeared in the NSS News many eons ago. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:52 AM, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers > <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Oh chill, I'm just kidding ... ;-) > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 7:36 AM, Heather Tucek <trog...@cavechat.org> wrote: > Facebook claims all rights to everything posted on their site. Photos. > Articles. Everything. We don't want to put the TC on Facebook, unless we want > to give up all rights to everything contained in it. > > > On 30 July 2014 06:48, Lyndon Tiu via Texascavers > <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > "Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due > to ... and social networking." > > Maybe we can move the Texas Caver magazine to Facebook ... just saying ;-) > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:41 AM, via Texascavers > <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Should read “NSS members”. > > > > It’s awfully early. ;) > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of > via Texascavers > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:38 AM > To: mjca...@gmail.com; texascavers@texascavers.com > > > Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Printed Word > > > Agreed, Mimi. > > > > > > When I was the Editor, I was dismayed (and somewhat confused) by the fact > that folks didn't realize that their article could be printed in BOTH > publications. > > > > Not all TSA members are NNS members and vice versa. > > > > > > Since these are the dog days of summer and caving in the state, this may be a > good time to talk about the state of the TC and the TSA. > > > > Personally, I'm worried about a long and slow death of the TSA, mainly due to > apathy and social networking. > > > > > > Hopefully, I'm wrong. > > > > Y'all's thoughts? > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of > Mimi Jasek via Texascavers > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 11:58 PM > To: TexasCavers > Subject: [Texascavers] The Printed Word > > > > How utterly sad - and totally disheartening - to finally see something on > paper about caving in Texas this year in the NSS News, rather than in a Texas > Caver. Something very wrong somewhere. > > > > Mimi Jasek > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com > | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -- > Lyndon Tiu > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -- > Go find out! > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > trog...@cavechat.org > > > > -- > Lyndon Tiu > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/397f5536/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:11:14 -0500 From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] Natural Trap Cave Message-ID: <54da9558-f150-4af5-9ed6-cedb5c4fa...@austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes For some mysterious reason, there has been a lot of comment about the "reopening" of Natural Trap Cave in Wyoming. I trust everyone has noticed that the cave has not actually be reopened for _caving_, but just for renewed paleontological work, which is not at all the same thing. -- Mixon ---------------------------------------- I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. ---------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:20:57 -0500 From: Bill Bentley via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: "s...@caver.net" <s...@caver.net>, Cave Texas <Texascavers@texascavers.com>, MoCaves <moca...@caver.net>, ilspe...@caver.net, usacav...@caver.net, Cave List <p...@caver.net>, sandiagro...@caver.net Subject: [Texascavers] CREE lights Message-ID: <53d92979.7010...@caver.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Greetings, Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other wise... It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary though... It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... Bill -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cree1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25892 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/de9b0210/attachment-0002.jpg> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cree2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25218 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/de9b0210/attachment-0003.jpg> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 12:41:41 -0500 From: Phil Goldman via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: ca...@caver.net, Ilspeleo Cavers Mailing List <ilspe...@caver.net> Cc: "s...@caver.net" <s...@caver.net>, Cave Texas <Texascavers@texascavers.com>, Cave List <p...@caver.net>, usacav...@caver.net, sandiagro...@caver.net, MoCaves <moca...@caver.net> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [Ilspeleo] CREE lights Message-ID: <caesazmeg1d+txdvkcnt37c6zm0gu_u4b3vurxj78htwgwtq...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" You may want to jump on to the FaceBook Electric Cave Lights Group. There has been quite a bit of discussion around the "Chinese" cree lights. They aren't the real deal and the lumins are way off nor do they meet up their claims of shock proof and waterproof. But they are cheap! If you do the math (and I don't have the numbers in front of me), to run the newer generation Crees at 3k lumin (which is beyond their design spec) for 48 hours would require a car battery. But you wouldn't get that long anways, because the fire department would have arrived to put your smoldering head out :-) I'm a HUGE fan of the Cree lights, specifically the Zebra. Although there are other very good brands, like Fenix, Black Diamond, Petzl & etc. All have slightly different features and functionalities and costs. I personally feel the Zebra is the best bang for the buck and I can cave 12 hours on one battery if I'm conservative. 1k lumin is so much light in the cave environment, it's ridiculous :-) Phil Goldman Chairman, Windy City Grotto On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Bill Bentley <ca...@caver.net> wrote: > Greetings, > Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other > wise... > It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And > leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary > though... > It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 > hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... > Bill > > > _______________________________________________ > Ilspeleo mailing list > ilspe...@caver.net > http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ilspeleo > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/551503ad/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 13:59:25 -0400 From: Peter Jones via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: ca...@caver.net, SWR Cavers Mailing List <s...@caver.net> Cc: Cave Texas <Texascavers@texascavers.com>, Cave List <p...@caver.net>, MoCaves <moca...@caver.net>, usacav...@caver.net, sandiagro...@caver.net, ilspe...@caver.net Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] CREE lights Message-ID: <1805d7e5-f208-4b5d-88d3-6b7511ca8...@gwi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Not with headlamps, only as regular house incandescent/CFL lamp replacements. We like them because they are cheap ($4 at Home Depot for the 60 W version) and are dimmable to a certain extent. They seem well made and with luck will last longer as lamps than I will as a human being. With power output that you mention on the headlamps, we call them formation burners. You could topple Goliath with one sweep of that beam light!!! Peter On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Bill Bentley wrote: > Greetings, > Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other wise... > It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And > leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary > though... > It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 > hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... > Bill > > <cree1.jpg><cree2.jpg>_______________________________________________ > SWR mailing list > s...@caver.net > http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/4feca27f/attachment-0001.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SITDCP Card 2010.tif Type: image/tiff Size: 212460 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/4feca27f/attachment-0001.tif> ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:04:15 -0500 From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Texas Cavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <CAA_AXMiYm6bP=c8jag9kq6b2qx1eapjhxpbgxlpt+e8chsw...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know what? Worth it. The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if there's nothing to put in it. I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! TL;DR Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. /end rant -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary & Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/f923c036/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:51:02 -0500 From: Mixon Bill via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Message-ID: <489a42fd-5176-44c7-bb06-126899764...@austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look good. The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon ---------------------------------------- I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. ---------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:08:38 +0000 From: Denise P via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: TexasCavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] NPR Article Fossils in Wyoming Cave Message-ID: <blu173-w188671b40101ddcc23f6f8b5...@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Heard about this on NPR. Not sure if it's been posted already. Any cavers involved? http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/25/us-usa-fossils-wyoming-idUSKBN0FU07T20140725 Cheers, Denise -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/4474c445/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:20:01 -0500 From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Heather Tucek <trog...@cavechat.org>, Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <cajfdpxshudb1-fwydupimkra123magkbd8i5hksyuashckg...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, > just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know > what? Worth it. > > > > The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May > issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only > finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in > trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if > there's nothing to put in it. > > I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past > couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips > this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant > amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding > photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great > publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS > Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? > Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! > > There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? > Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the > national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If > you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your > email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). > > Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail > anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the > problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't > want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone > copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and > grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! > > > > > TL;DR > Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on > your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. > > /end rant > > > -- > *Go find out!* > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > trog...@cavechat.org > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- Charlie Loving -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0001.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: karst walker comic.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 380415 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0004.jpg> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Walker 2_edited-1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 838500 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0005.jpg> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Karst 1 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1004967 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0006.jpg> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: KW 2 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 707917 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/ae0c4b8a/attachment-0007.jpg> ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:29:45 +0000 From: c via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com>, "=?utf-8?Q?texascavers@texascavers.com?=" <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <20140730215356.8a487661...@alpha.caves.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" loving, quit stealing grenades from Uvalde. make your own BO Sent from Windows Mail From: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:20 PM To: Heather Tucek, texascavers@texascavers.com On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know what? Worth it. The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if there's nothing to put in it. I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! TL;DR Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. /end rant -- Go find out! -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary & Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org _______________________________________________ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/e309ca6f/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 00:31:20 +0200 From: Jill Orr via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: "'Mixon Bill'" <bmixon...@austin.rr.com>, <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Message-ID: <029101cfac45$fdf693f0$f9e3bbd0$@swbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Bill, I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs attention. Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. jill orr 210.399.6762 jillorr.businesscatalyst.com Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look good. The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon ---------------------------------------- I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. ---------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org _______________________________________________ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:13:52 -0500 From: Jacqueline Thomas via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com>, texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <2decd2cf-7722-4737-8337-a77b04d23...@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 No, No, Nooooooo! Save them for the Caver, Mr. Loving, sir, please!!!! Here's an idea-- I saw multiple people do interesting things at NSS Convention and maybe no one wants to write a "real trip report" but multiple brief vignettes by several attendees, collected into a "glimpses of Convention" article could be pretty entertaining. I'd write up my favorite "fooled me" moment. Any takers? Jacqui On Jul 30, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers wrote: > > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers > <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, > just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know what? > Worth it. > > > > The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May issue > of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only finally > being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in trip > reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if there's > nothing to put in it. > > I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past > couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips this > month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant amount of > her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding photos, etc. > All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great publication. We won one > award at the Publication Salon at the NSS Convention. ONE. How many did other > organizations win? You know why? Because they actually have stuff to > publish!!!! > > There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? Why > isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the national > magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If you're going > to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your email! (I've seen > this a number of times, not just this month). > > Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail > anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the problem, > and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't want to > publish something because you think you can't write, have someone copyedit it > for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and grammatical > errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! > > > > > > > > TL;DR > Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on your > front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. > > /end rant > > > > -- > Go find out! > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > trog...@cavechat.org > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > <karst walker comic.jpg><Walker 2_edited-1.jpg><Karst 1 1.jpg><KW 2 > 1.jpg>_______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:34:31 -0500 From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Jill Orr <jill...@swbell.net>, "texascavers@texascavers.com" <texascavers@texascavers.com> Cc: "<texascavers@texascavers.com>" <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Message-ID: <3e8cf7c1-ec5d-40d0-9ba7-b59454d9e...@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Ouch ! Touchy ..... Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Hi Bill, > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs > attention. > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at a > picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for > material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", perhaps you > will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I > could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip > leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe > I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down > at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be > scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that > could be related to Texas caving. > > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers > to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and > work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and > influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. > > jill orr > 210.399.6762 > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com > > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to > comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to > be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. > > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten > barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average > the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas > Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase > in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look > good. > > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about > Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters > to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting > material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of > thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on > Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to > get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your > Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT > Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be > going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if > you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological > Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of > permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or > elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS > Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by > different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various > places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading > various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good > about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely > included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten > to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand > words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have > appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for > The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas > cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News > about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author > might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS > policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to > reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the > News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on record there. TSS > board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out semi-confidential dealings with > agencies and the like? > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and > waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't entirely > excuse your ignoring the plea.) > > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent record > of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as much > _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some discretion > might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast during your > caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too much of what > we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > ---------------------------------------- > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > ---------------------------------------- > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, > save: > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com > | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 19:06:55 -0500 From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: jerryatkin <jerryat...@aol.com>, Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Message-ID: <CAJfDpxu80k=fstk5gkqzsc1htfzx3wgpomuonowlhkatzuh...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Ouch ! Touchy ..... > > Jerry. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > > > Hi Bill, > > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that > needs attention. > > > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort > at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > > > > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea > for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", > perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just > an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to > all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on > in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to > and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after > all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for > postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. > > > > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage > cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality > publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win > friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. > > > > jill orr > > 210.399.6762 > > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com > > > > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > > > > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am > moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to > volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already > oversubscribed. > > > > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten > barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the > average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. > The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at > no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable > sizes, to look good. > > > > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything > about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of > newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's > job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my > time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by > posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles > through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses > you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the > NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the > Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal > digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the > Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers > posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > > > > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or > elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS > Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by > different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from > various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people > leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been > good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they > routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can > be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth > a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought > to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still > published? > > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them > for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by > Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS > News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the > author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the > Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President > is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to > anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on > record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out > semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? > > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material > and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't > entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) > > > > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent > record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as > much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some > discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast > during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too > much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > > ---------------------------------------- > > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > > ---------------------------------------- > > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term > use, save: > > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu > > AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > -- Charlie Loving -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/725eb064/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 20:46:55 -0400 From: George-Paul Richmann via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com>, TSA Cavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Message-ID: <cabsr2qh87_1voauvhuohomujbfs-o72vcxorfhakfture60...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” ― Socrates <http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/275648.Socrates> On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write > but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. > > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > >> Ouch ! Touchy ..... >> >> Jerry. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < >> texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: >> >> > Hi Bill, >> > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that >> needs attention. >> > >> > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort >> at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications >> professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least >> listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should >> listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any >> endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to >> increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. >> > >> > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea >> for material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", >> perhaps you will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just >> an opinion. I could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to >> all the trip leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on >> in Texas. Maybe I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to >> and sit them down at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after >> all... I should also be scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for >> postings of anything that could be related to Texas caving. >> > >> > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage >> cavers to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality >> publication and work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win >> friends and influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. >> > >> > jill orr >> > 210.399.6762 >> > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com >> > >> > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver >> > >> > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am >> moved to comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to >> volunteer to be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already >> oversubscribed. >> > >> > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture >> magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten >> barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the >> average the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. >> The Texas Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at >> no increase in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable >> sizes, to look good. >> > >> > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything >> about Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of >> newsletters to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's >> job, and getting material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my >> time-scale, trend of thinking one has documented his caving activities by >> posting things on Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles >> through the snow to get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses >> you, fine, but your Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the >> NSS Library, the UT Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the >> Texas Caver should be going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal >> digital archive, if you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the >> Texas Speleological Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers >> posts as are of permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. >> > >> > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or >> elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS >> Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by >> different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from >> various places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people >> leading various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been >> good about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they >> routinely included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can >> be gotten to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth >> a thousand words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought >> to have appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still >> published? >> > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from >> them for The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your >> > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by >> Texas cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. >> > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS >> News about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the >> author might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the >> Caver. (NSS policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President >> is needed to reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to >> anything in the News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on >> record there. TSS board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out >> semi-confidential dealings with agencies and the like? >> > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. >> > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for >> material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that >> doesn't entirely excuse your ignoring the plea.) >> > >> > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent >> record of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as >> much _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some >> discretion might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast >> during your caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too >> much of what we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon >> > ---------------------------------------- >> > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. >> > ---------------------------------------- >> > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for >> long-term use, save: >> > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu >> > AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org or sa...@mexicancaves.org >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex >> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex >> > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> _______________________________________________ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> > > > > -- > Charlie Loving > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- George-Paul Richmann (513) 490-3100 gprichm...@gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/009cd23a/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 22:19:01 -0500 From: Marvin Miller via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Heather Tucek <trog...@cavechat.org>, texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <caf-ygdw9m799fnrbmxe8p_bct25_4mqtfbukpawazx8bksj...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and do interesting things. I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > As per request from a caver unnamed, I'm posting this here too. You know, > just in case I haven't already royally pissed you off yet. But you know > what? Worth it. > > > > The Texas Caver has just been sent off to the printer. This is the May > issue of the Texas Caver. Why is it almost August and the May issue is only > finally being printed? Why, it's because no Texas Cavers actually send in > trip reports to be published! We can't make a newsletter/magazine if > there's nothing to put in it. > > I know LOTS of you have gone on a number of Texas caving trips in the past > couple of months. I know LOTS of you went on plenty of AMAZING TAG trips > this month. Why is no one sending in articles? Jill spends an exorbitant > amount of her personal volunteer time making the layout, editing, adding > photos, etc. All the things needed to make the Texas Caver a great > publication. We won one award at the Publication Salon at the NSS > Convention. ONE. How many did other organizations win? You know why? > Because they actually have stuff to publish!!!! > > There's an article about Texas Caving in the most recent NSS News. Why? > Why isn't that article in the Texas Caver? Just because it goes in the > national magazine doesn't mean it can't also go in the local magazine. If > you're going to put one together for NSS, go ahead and copy Jill on your > email! (I've seen this a number of times, not just this month). > > Bottom line is, if you want to see your Texas Caver magazine in the mail > anymore, you need to man up, be a part of the answer instead of the > problem, and start sending in your trip reports and photos. If you don't > want to publish something because you think you can't write, have someone > copyedit it for you first. I'll be happy to go through and fix spelling and > grammatical errors, as long as you SEND SOMETHING IN!! > > > > > TL;DR > Start sending articles and photos to the Texas Caver or I will camp on > your front doorstep until you write something down. I know who you are. > > /end rant > > > -- > *Go find out!* > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > trog...@cavechat.org > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140730/46ebaa82/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 23:19:02 -0500 From: David via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: CaveTex <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] $ 500 offer Message-ID: <caecwswmvdrvsntafcvtx0cu63gjphveo5pc6ua9lp1srymo...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I would like to propose that the TSA sell to me outright The Texas Caver. I offer a price of $ 500. This would include all future legal rights to the name, "The Texas Caver," along with any profits, and I would be free to do with the magazine as I wished, such as sell it, rename it, operate it, etc. Then the TSA could focus its efforts on the defunct TSA Activities Newsletter, ( R.I.P.) David Locklear ( probably not even a TSA member at the moment ) NSS # 27639 ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:38:02 +0000 From: Stefan Creaser via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Charles Loving <lovingi...@gmail.com>, "texascavers@texascavers.com" <texascavers@texascavers.com>, jerryatkin <jerryat...@aol.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Message-ID: <a76d3c6915623a4c8e32c661600cb9e82164238...@kirk.usa.arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Tsk tsk... It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways too ;-) -Stefan ________________________________________ From: Texascavers [texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Charles Loving via Texascavers [texascavers@texascavers.com] Sent: 30 July 2014 19:06 To: jerryatkin; Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Once upon a time people read books and papers and even knew how to write but the new generation is all into the cereal asile at the Heb or Walmart. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 6:34 PM, via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: Ouch ! Touchy ..... Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: > Hi Bill, > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs > attention. > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at a > picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > > Regarding "It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for > material and waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it.", perhaps you > will be willing to give me some guidance here rather than just an opinion. I > could work on my latent ESP potential and write directly to all the trip > leaders of the trips I haven’t been on or told about going on in Texas. Maybe > I could travel to caver's homes I have directly appealed to and sit them down > at their computers with my Glock? It is Texas after all... I should also be > scouring the internet on a daily basis looking for postings of anything that > could be related to Texas caving. > > Finally, a sincere thank you for your support in trying to encourage cavers > to submit articles and for me to put out a better quality publication and > work harder at getting articles. If tips from 'How to win friends and > influence people' doesn’t work, perhaps your method will. > > jill orr > 210.399.6762<tel:210.399.6762> > jillorr.businesscatalyst.com<http://jillorr.businesscatalyst.com> > > Subject: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver > > Now that the question of the Texas Caver has arisen once again, I am moved to > comment. I've largely kept quiet because I am in no position to volunteer to > be part of the solution. My armchair-caving time is already oversubscribed. > > The Texas Caver has recently been a fairly decent effort at a picture > magazine, but where's the beef? The most recent issue (2013 #4) I've gotten > barely reaches an average of 300 words per page, not including in the average > the front and back covers, where one doesn't expect to find text. The Texas > Caver could easily contain two or three times as much material at no increase > in cost and still have enough photos, printed at reasonable sizes, to look > good. > > The Texas Caver should aspire to be a permanent record of everything about > Texas caves and caving. I've edited enough thousands of pages of newsletters > to know that layout is the easy and fun part of an editor's job, and getting > material is the hard part. I deplore the recent, on my time-scale, trend of > thinking one has documented his caving activities by posting things on > Facebook. (When I was little, I had to walk three miles through the snow to > get to the Internet, uphill both ways.) If that amuses you, fine, but your > Facebook or TexasCavers list posts do not end up in the NSS Library, the UT > Geology Library, or the USGS Library, all places the Texas Caver should be > going on paper. (Or to the Karst Information Portal digital archive, if > you're into that sort of thing.) I'll bet that even the Texas Speleological > Survey does not archive on paper such rare TexasCavers posts as are of > permanent value; I hope I'm wrong. > > There is no shame in reprinting things that appeared on social media or > elsewhere in the web. Three of the feature articles in the latest AMCS > Activities Newsletter originated in blogs or the like, supplemented by > different or additional graphics, and some others are reprinted from various > places, again generally in somewhat different form. The people leading > various project such a Colorado Bend or Government Canyon have been good > about posting reports to the TexasCavers list. Why aren't they routinely > included in the Texas Caver as a permanent record? If a photo can be gotten > to go with one, fine, but if not, so what? A picture may be worth a thousand > words, but not if it hogs the space where a thousand words ought to have > appeared. Are there not some Texas grotto newsletters still published? > Even if they are only electronic, good material can be cribbed from them for > The Texas Caver. (Does the TC editor receive your > newsletter?) There are some abstracts about Texas caving or at least by Texas > cavers in the program booklet for the recent NSS convention. > Those could be reprinted in the TC. Anything that appears in the NSS News > about Texas could be reprinted, with the author's permission, or the author > might be willing to provide a somewhat different version for the Caver. (NSS > policy claims that permission from the Executive Vice-President is needed to > reprint, but actually the NSS does not own the copyright to anything in the > News.) TSA meeting minutes should certainly always go on record there. TSS > board minutes, perhaps edited to cut out semi-confidential dealings with > agencies and the like? > Recent issues have contained some good stuff; a lot more is out there. > It's the editor's job to corral it; just sending out a plea for material and > waiting for it to magically appear doesn't cut it. (But that doesn't entirely > excuse your ignoring the plea.) > > The paper edition of the Texas Caver is the only potentially permanent record > of the Texas caving scene. As such, it should strive to include as much > _information_ as possible. Being pretty is a bonus. Of course some discretion > might be used to cut out details of what you had for breakfast during your > caving trip, but better even that than nothing, which is too much of what > we've been getting. -- Bill Mixon > ---------------------------------------- > I didn't do it. You can't prove it. Nobody saw it. The sheep are lying. > ---------------------------------------- > You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, > save: > Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu<mailto:bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu> > AMCS: a...@mexicancaves.org<mailto:a...@mexicancaves.org> or > sa...@mexicancaves.org<mailto:sa...@mexicancaves.org> > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers _______________________________________________ Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com Texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:Texascavers@texascavers.com> | Archives: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -- Charlie Loving -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2557590 ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered in England & Wales, Company No: 2548782 ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:47:39 +0000 From: Katherine Arens via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Texas Cavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Message-ID: <cc6dc876-1828-4006-b8f1-4d35bb3d7...@austin.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" What is being suggested through some of this thread is not bad, == and it’s what happens for “Mexico News” in AMCS: take what’s posted on other media (printed in other places), and use as short notes, with the editor filling them out. And then use spell check . . . TSA and the Caver have always cycled; not gone under. Sometimes people write, and other times cave. Pay attention and devote some time to the other side of the fence. IF it went digital it could collect the now LARGE numbers of videos on people’s phones, ask for voice-over narratives. new media; new opportunities. On Jul 30, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: Tsk tsk... It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways too ;-) -Stefan ________________________________________ Jerry. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com><mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: Hi Bill, I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs attention. Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. . . . . ************************ Katherine Arens Office Phone: (512) 232-6363 ar...@austin.utexas.edu<mailto:ar...@austin.utexas.edu> Dept. Phone: (512) 471-4123 Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025 2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location: Burdine 336 University of Texas at Austin Office: Burdine 320 Austin, TX 78712-1802 -. .- _..-'( )`-.._ ./'. '||\\. (\_/) .//||` .`\. ./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )O O( ..|//||||`.`|.`\. ./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`" '` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\. ./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. . |||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\. /'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\ '.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.` '.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.` |/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\| V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/b060aeaa/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 11:23:44 +0000 From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: <cave0mil...@gmail.com>, <texascavers@texascavers.com>, <trog...@cavechat.org> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <dcdcfe0df3a1aa49899e63411a4662de17218...@txg-svex14.corp.eos.l-3com.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I agree with you, Marvin. On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to the same thing in order to get it published. No harm in that. Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along with their offerings to further flesh out their report. “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. A report is a report. My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How does the TSA look? Mark From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Marvin Miller via Texascavers Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM To: Heather Tucek; texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and do interesting things. I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/41dfd66c/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 06:51:36 -0500 From: Bill Bentley via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: mark.al...@l-3com.com, texascavers@texascavers.com, cave0mil...@gmail.com, trog...@cavechat.org Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <53da2dc8.6020...@caver.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Mark, The Texascavers and all my mailing lists do allow attachments, We are finally getting into the 1990's technology... :) Bill On 7/31/2014 6:23 AM, via Texascavers wrote: > > I agree with you, Marvin. > > On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to > the same thing in order to get it published. > > No harm in that. > > Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, > since attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos > to go along with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > > “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > > One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > > A report is a report. > > My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is > the TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > > Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. > How does the TSA look? > > Mark > > *From:*Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On > Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > *To:* Heather Tucek; texascavers@texascavers.com > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > > For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of > the NSS News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. > Buford's method - as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on > various blogs, email lists, etc. across the nation and compiling the > interesting bits in his column. That is how a Colorado Bend trip > report, a Government Canyon trip report, and a report on the latest > Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They were not sent to the > News as an article to be published but were instead picked up by > Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers across > the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and > do interesting things. > > I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective > projects in a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures > and maps and submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great > thing. If the editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the > email list and publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to > support the magazine and the TSS and news about caving in Texas > wherever it appears. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/bd5d26dc/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:22:13 -0500 From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: David <dlocklea...@gmail.com>, Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] $ 500 offer Message-ID: <cajfdpxvakyzygmucdgpqsbnb3yzvbhrg-kwagoedaqbkewu...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Wow! Another epistle from Bockbeer. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:19 PM, David via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > I would like to propose that the TSA sell to me outright The Texas Caver. > I offer a price of $ 500. This would include all future legal > rights to the name, "The > Texas Caver," along with any profits, and I would be free to do with the > magazine as I wished, such as sell it, rename it, operate it, etc. > > Then the TSA could focus its efforts on the defunct TSA Activities > Newsletter, ( R.I.P.) > > > > David Locklear > ( probably not even a TSA member at the moment ) > NSS # 27639 > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > -- Charlie Loving -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/9782e2cf/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:25:54 -0500 From: Charles Loving via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Peter Jones <pjca...@gwi.net>, Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR] CREE lights Message-ID: <cajfdpxurk6nx45i+uot+cc_15rqbpc3wheqqdiqkhfxaqgr...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" And I still use a carbide lamp though not often. It can be used to cook a can of beans. But then the new world of cavers eat that dry stuff that you just add water to and shake. No caver stews I am sure, though we ate a lot of that and so did the Mexican dogs at Golendrinas after the basketball game between cavers and kids. Final score Kids 40 Cavers Zero. On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Peter Jones via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Not with headlamps, only as regular house incandescent/CFL lamp > replacements. We like them because they are cheap ($4 at Home Depot for > the 60 W version) and are dimmable to a certain extent. They seem well > made and with luck will last longer as lamps than I will as a human being. > With power output that you mention on the headlamps, we call them > formation burners. You could topple Goliath with one sweep of that beam > light!!! > > Peter > > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:20 PM, Bill Bentley wrote: > > Greetings, > Anyone have any experiences with CREE headlights? Good? Bad? other > wise... > It says 3000 Lumens, It cause pain when I try to look in the beam... And > leaves a streak like you have looked at a welding light ... temporary > though... > It is bright and I have tested it on two 2800 mAh 3.7 v batteries for 48 > hours and there is still usable light although not as bright as it was... > Bill > > <cree1.jpg><cree2.jpg>_______________________________________________ > SWR mailing list > s...@caver.net > http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr > > _______________________________________________ > This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET > > > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- Charlie Loving -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/1f1840f2/attachment-0001.html> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SITDCP Card 2010.tif Type: image/tiff Size: 212460 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/1f1840f2/attachment-0001.tif> ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:07:07 -0600 From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Bill Bentley <ca...@caver.net>, Cavetex <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <cagm7t+c6+kqax00t5g0t6kzexmynys3ssbj9mocinoot432...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yeah, we are both allowing larger attachments now, as long as it's not abused. On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 5:51 AM, Bill Bentley via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Mark, The Texascavers and all my mailing lists do allow attachments, > We are finally getting into the 1990's technology... > :) > Bill > > > On 7/31/2014 6:23 AM, via Texascavers wrote: > > I agree with you, Marvin. > > > > On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to the > same thing in order to get it published. > > > > No harm in that. > > > > Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since > attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along > with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > > > > “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > > > > One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > > > > > > A report is a report. > > > > > > My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the > TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > > > > Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How > does the TSA look? > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com > <texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com>] *On Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via > Texascavers > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > *To:* Heather Tucek; texascavers@texascavers.com > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > > > > For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS > News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - > as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, > etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. > That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, > and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They > were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead > picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers > across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and > do interesting things. > > > > I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in > a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and > submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the > editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and > publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and > the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. > > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.comtexascav...@texascavers.com > | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetexhttp://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/2a9a947e/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:07:58 -0500 From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Katherine Arens <ar...@austin.utexas.edu>, Texas Cavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] The Texas Caver Message-ID: <CAA_AXMixVO0mcj8bDFFX2PWVgJyF4jhf=djm4kgxyhyau5h...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" We can't print without people's permission. The problem is, people will put quips on Facebook or whatever, and then when we ask to print it, they say "Oh, I'll send you a better one for the Caver", and then they never do. If we want an editor that swims around all the forums and emails and mucks through all the internet banality just to find that tiny little trip report in amongst all the crap, we need to pay them a living wage. It takes a lot of time to go through all the postings everywhere, and when you are a volunteer, there's just no time for that. On 30 July 2014 23:47, Katherine Arens via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > What is being suggested through some of this thread is not bad, == and > it’s what happens for “Mexico News” in AMCS: take what’s posted on other > media (printed in other places), and use as short notes, with the editor > filling them out. > > And then use spell check . . . > > TSA and the Caver have always cycled; not gone under. Sometimes people > write, and other times cave. Pay attention and devote some time to the > other side of the fence. IF it went digital it could collect the now LARGE > numbers of videos on people’s phones, ask for voice-over narratives. > > new media; new opportunities. > > > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 11:38 PM, Stefan Creaser via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > > Tsk tsk... > > It's HEB and WalMart, seems the oldies can't keep up with the modern ways > too ;-) > > -Stefan > ________________________________________ > > Jerry. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Jill Orr via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com > <texascavers@texascavers.com>>> wrote: > > Hi Bill, > I don’t usually respond to this kind of email, but this was one that needs > attention. > > Thank you for your critique on the Caver being a "fairly decent effort at > a picture magazine". As a graphic designer and marketing communications > professional with 20 years of experience, I am always open to at least > listening to the opinions of others. After all, everyone has one. I should > listen to yours... That said, there is always room for improvement in any > endeavor. I certainly don’t think the caver is perfect so I'll have to > increase my fairly decent effort to something greater. > . . . . > > > ************************ > Katherine Arens Office Phone: (512) 232-6363 > ar...@austin.utexas.edu Dept. Phone: (512) 471-4123 > Dept. of Germanic Studies FAX (512) 471-4025 > 2505 University Ave, C3300 Bldg.Location: Burdine 336 > University of Texas at Austin Office: Burdine 320 > Austin, TX 78712-1802 > > -. .- > _..-'( )`-.._ > ./'. '||\\. (\_/) .//||` .`\. > ./'.|'.'||||\\|.. )O O( ..|//||||`.`|.`\. > ./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`" '` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\. > ./'.||'.|||| ||||||||||||. . |||||||||||| ||||.`||.`\. > /'|||'.|||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| ||||||.`|||`\ > '.|||'.||||||| ||||||||||||{ }|||||||||||| |||||||.`|||.` > '.||| ||||||||| |/' ``\||`` ''||/'' `\| ||||||||| |||.` > |/' \./' `\./ \!|\ /|!/ \./' `\./ `\| > V V V }' `\ /' `{ V V V > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary & Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/7871b293/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:11:08 -0500 From: Heather Tucek via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Alman Mark <mark.al...@l-3com.com>, Texas Cavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <caa_axmj-xmppsaqy68h6e6afvegrmm789z3f5k2cf7tp6xi...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mark, the TSA has 180 current members. On 31 July 2014 06:23, <mark.al...@l-3com.com> wrote: > I agree with you, Marvin. > > > > On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to the > same thing in order to get it published. > > > > No harm in that. > > > > Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since > attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along > with their offerings to further flesh out their report. > > > > “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. > > > > One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. > > > > > > A report is a report. > > > > > > My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the > TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. > > > > Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How > does the TSA look? > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On > Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM > *To:* Heather Tucek; texascavers@texascavers.com > > *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver > > > > For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good > discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS > News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - > as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, > etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. > That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, > and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They > were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead > picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers > across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and > do interesting things. > > > > I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for > Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in > a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and > submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the > editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and > publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and > the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. > -- *Go find out!* -Heather Tuček UT Grotto, DFW Grotto TSA Secretary & Membership Chair NSS 59660 (512) 773-1348 trog...@cavechat.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/777dab06/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:14:54 -0600 From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Cavetex <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: [Texascavers] Mailing List update and bounce information Message-ID: <cagm7t+bnokgpcexs_yukrhm4cytuqdso0wqvkehmgpxp2+x...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" First off, my apologies to those of you who are getting messages about bounced messages and possible removal from the list. I don't do this for a living, meaning, I don't take care of email servers, my job is networking and telephony, but I do this for a hobby, started off just buying my own domain and learning how to host my own email. Long story short, I'm learning as I go and adapting to industry changes. Yahoo, AOL, Hotmail and the other big name email providers keep making changes, and some of these changes think that our email is spam. That's why I've made some behind the scenes changes, and some you've noticed, like the reply-to and how the list displays. It's a necessary evil, but needed. I had an error in my records that I found this morning, and while it may take a few days to get the system flushed out of existing email through the big providers, I'm hoping I've licked the problem and things will go smoother now. If you see any error messages, bounce notifications, etc, please forward them to me. As I said in another message, but just to clarify, we now allow larger attachments to the mailing list. I don't think we have anyone left on dial-up anymore, but please don't abuse it, if I get too many complaints, I'll have to lower the size allowed. As always, let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns Charles texascavers mailing list admin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/f1223469/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:16:18 -0600 From: Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Heather Tucek <trog...@cavechat.org>, Cavetex <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <CAGm7T+BzsN=p4kybcxtjmqrcl0jstop3ka_tmyw5plnz4p1...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of out of state members on the mailing list. On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > Mark, the TSA has 180 current members. > > > On 31 July 2014 06:23, <mark.al...@l-3com.com> wrote: > >> I agree with you, Marvin. >> >> >> >> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to >> the same thing in order to get it published. >> >> >> >> No harm in that. >> >> >> >> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, since >> attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go along >> with their offerings to further flesh out their report. >> >> >> >> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. >> >> >> >> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. >> >> >> >> >> >> A report is a report. >> >> >> >> >> >> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the >> TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. >> >> >> >> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How >> does the TSA look? >> >> >> >> >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On >> Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM >> *To:* Heather Tucek; texascavers@texascavers.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver >> >> >> >> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good >> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS >> News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - >> as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, >> etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. >> That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, >> and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They >> were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead >> picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers >> across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and >> do interesting things. >> >> >> >> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for >> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in >> a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and >> submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the >> editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and >> publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and >> the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. >> > > > > -- > *Go find out!* > -Heather Tuček > UT Grotto, DFW Grotto > TSA Secretary & Membership Chair > NSS 59660 > (512) 773-1348 > trog...@cavechat.org > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/687ab7bf/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 11:21:10 -0400 From: Joe Ranzau via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <caaqsbitcs1k1vor4e_y203nhcjemhbkcjcvzv-5kusrhirw...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Ediger gives a nice talk about why the TSA really should or does encompass all people in Texas that like caves, not just the ones that pony up membership dues. Perhaps he will post it here for our review... On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Charles Goldsmith via Texascavers < texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of > out of state members on the mailing list. > > > On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers < > texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote: > >> Mark, the TSA has 180 current members. >> >> >> On 31 July 2014 06:23, <mark.al...@l-3com.com> wrote: >> >>> I agree with you, Marvin. >>> >>> >>> >>> On occasion, when the picking were slim for the TC, I had to resort to >>> the same thing in order to get it published. >>> >>> >>> >>> No harm in that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Not everyone has access to these listserves (is that a word?) and, >>> since attachments aren’t allowed, I would ping the writers for photos to go >>> along with their offerings to further flesh out their report. >>> >>> >>> >>> “Put a little meat on their bones”, in other words. >>> >>> >>> >>> One’s gotta do what one’s gotta do when the pickings are a little slim. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> A report is a report. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is >>> the TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. >>> >>> >>> >>> Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How >>> does the TSA look? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] *On >>> Behalf Of *Marvin Miller via Texascavers >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:19 PM >>> *To:* Heather Tucek; texascavers@texascavers.com >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver >>> >>> >>> >>> For the record - and I'm not mad at anyone; I think this is a good >>> discussion - the Texas caving news appearing in the latest issue of the NSS >>> News is in Buford Pruitt's "Underground Online" column. Buford's method - >>> as I understand it - is trolling the chatter on various blogs, email lists, >>> etc. across the nation and compiling the interesting bits in his column. >>> That is how a Colorado Bend trip report, a Government Canyon trip report, >>> and a report on the latest Deep Cave trip ended up in the NSS News. They >>> were not sent to the News as an article to be published but were instead >>> picked up by Buford off of this very email listserve. That's great. Cavers >>> across the nation and the world need to see that Texas cavers go caving and >>> do interesting things. >>> >>> >>> >>> I know that occasionally the three people who wrote those reports for >>> Texascavers.com also compile the happenings in their respective projects in >>> a bit more of a readable and concise fashion with pictures and maps and >>> submit an article to the Texas Caver. That's also a great thing. If the >>> editors of the Texas Caver want to pull things of the email list and >>> publish it, more power to them. I'll continue to support the magazine and >>> the TSS and news about caving in Texas wherever it appears. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> *Go find out!* >> -Heather Tuček >> UT Grotto, DFW Grotto >> TSA Secretary & Membership Chair >> NSS 59660 >> (512) 773-1348 >> trog...@cavechat.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com >> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com > Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cavetex > http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/7964247e/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:48:57 +0000 From: via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com> To: <wo...@justfamily.org>, <trog...@cavechat.org>, <texascavers@texascavers.com> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver Message-ID: <dcdcfe0df3a1aa49899e63411a4662de17218...@txg-svex14.corp.eos.l-3com.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks, Heather and Charles, for the info and for all of your hard work for the caving community, of which you are paid so handsomely! ☺ Oh, and since we’re talking numbers and since I’m one of the Administrators for the TSA Facebook page, it has 682 members (!), FWIW. Mark From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:16 AM To: Heather Tucek; Cavetex Cc: Alman, Mark @ ESG - WSS - IRP Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Caver As a comparison, the mailing list has 481 members. We do have a lot of out of state members on the mailing list. On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>> wrote: Mark, the TSA has 180 current members. On 31 July 2014 06:23, <mark.al...@l-3com.com<mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com>> wrote: My main query yesterday was not just how the TC was doing, but how is the TSA doing, as in membership numbers and trends. Organized clubs are struggling, including many grottos and the NSS. How does the TSA look? Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.texascavers.com/private/texascavers/attachments/20140731/f36abb3b/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Texascavers mailing list Texascavers@texascavers.com http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers ------------------------------ End of Texascavers Digest, Vol 1, Issue 39 ******************************************