Peter,
Very well stated!
On Apr 14, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Peter Jones wrote:
> Mike et al: I have a comment to make on what you just suggested and I agree
> with you 100%. Years ago when the battle was on in Congress over the removal
> of lands from mineral exploration (drilling for oil) north of the CACA NP
> boundary because of Lech, I actually went to visit four congress people in
> Washington, DC. I was already in the area because of doing some craft shows
> just north of DC, so took an extra day and made appointments to visit some
> Senators and Representatives. The only real Senator I got to see was
> Domenici back when he was still in office. I also visited Bingaman's office
> (I think that's whose it was) and those of two of my senators from Maine. It
> was enlightening in many ways. For one thing, I was probably one of the only
> actual citizens (as opposed to corporate lobbyists, lawyers and other
> cutthroat scum that passes for citizens) who came in to speak my mind on the
> issue directly to congress people. Domenici seemed mildly amused that
> someone other than a lawyer/lobbyist came in, but there I was, a caver,
> loaded with my own photos to illustrate the beauty that is Lech as an example
> of what would be lost if the unthinkable occurred. I think the associate I
> met with in Bingaman's office was livid that I was wasting her important time
> by *being a mere citizen* and addressing my grievances to her. I can still
> see her flared nostrils over the insolence of trying to express my views
> about saving Lech!! Anyway, my two senators from Maine seemed very
> interested as I was likely the only
> person from Maine to even bring it up.
>
> I realize that in regards to that issue that we didn't quite get everything
> we wished for. Yates still drilled, hit a dry hole and plugged it up with no
> damage to known caves. Considering all that, we lucked out. Now we face a
> different threat that comes in the form of legal people trying, for better or
> worse, to save bats. They do so by laying the blame of the spread of the
> disease directly at our feet. At least we agree with them that the spread of
> the disease is bad, but where we disagree is that it is spread by a human
> vector. If they're going to mount a legal attack on us, I agree that we need
> to respond to them in kind. Very few of us are lawyers, but that doesn't
> mean that we can't approach our own senators and representatives with our own
> responses to their attack. We need to agree that the spread of WNS is
> terrible and that we are doing all we can to prevent it through our own
> self-imposed decon- strategies, but be forceful in saying that the human
> vector has not been proven anywhere by anybody. Clearly the closing of caves
> is more detrimental to them (the article on Fern, for example, is a good
> illustration) than allowing for controlled visits. If we don't make that
> point to them, we will lose out to CBD without a fight. If all caves are
> closed to everyone, that's like having a fire and locking out all the firemen
> to put it out!!
>
> There is no reason why we can't use our constitutional rights to address our
> senators and representatives about what the CBD is doing. As you said, Mike,
> it's the numbers and we have far more of them than CBD does at the moment.
>
> Peter
>
>
> <SITDCP Card 2010.tif>
>
> On Apr 14, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Mike Bilbo wrote:
>
>> From what I know, Washington pretty much ignores petitions, but doesn't hurt
>> to sign - just in case. Personal letters are better but the main thing that
>> happens there by staffers is they just get quantified in statistics by
>> subject and keywords and presented to Congress as percentages on issues, yea
>> or nay &c, which could merit discussion. These days, it's people with
>> political connections and officers of organizations who might be able able
>> to get through. A basic strategy is you got to go meet with your
>> Congressional Delegation - go to the offices in person, and maybe the
>> congressperson or senator will actually be it. But the staffers will talk
>> to you and that's the best chance - you might end up on the phone in person.
>>
>> But the Center for Biological Travesty strategy here is interesting and
>> creative (in war, strategies count) - since they already lost a lawsuit on
>> these lines big-time, they are taking it to the Council on Environmental
>> Quality, which was created by the National Environmental Policy Act. Uh oh
>> - it doesn't matter whether you got a liberal or conservative
>> administration, CEQ and NEPA can really impact the situation - that council
>> and that law sure can. It's a good law and sure am glad Nixon got it
>> through, but it can be brought to bear in some very serious ways. Next -
>> CBD and their supportive allies are doing way more than just a petition:
>> lobbying and personal meetings with congressional delegations. Strategies.
>>
>> So, what shall the Cavers' and other reasonable citizens' strategy(ies) be?
>> Nope, you can't just sign a petition and that's it. We got way more work to
>> do.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> From: Kathy Peerman <speleob...@comcast.net>
>> To: Karl Wilson <wilsonsofcolor...@yahoo.com>; Kathy Peerman
>> <speleob...@comcast.net>; Mike Lorimer <mi...@fastwave.biz>; Hank Boudinot
>> <grnpacav...@gmail.com>; Mike Dimatteo <mike_dimat...@comcast.net>; Bob
>> Rodgers <motoca...@gmail.com>; Stephanie Regan <regan...@nmsu.edu>; Justin
>> Peinado <tu...@sbcglobal.net>; David Winnett <david.winn...@yahoo.com>;
>> Evelyn Townsend <karstpat...@gmail.com>; Wayne Walker <wcwal...@zianet.com>;
>> Robert Wood <robw...@wwdb.org>; Jackie Horton <rambe...@zianet.com>; Jeff
>> Bach <jbac...@comcast.net>; Dave Gose <oldgru...@msn.com>; John Collins
>> <elpasoca...@yahoo.com>; Luke Peerman <lpeer...@lcsun-news.com>; Scott
>> Anderson <scottanderso...@yahoo.com>; Ashley Smith <sarcave...@gmail.com>;
>> Mike Bilbo <mike_bi...@blm.gov>; Kenny Stabinsky <nmba...@zianet.com>; Lee
>> Wilson <lee.t.wil...@gmail.com>; Kate Bach <katert...@comcast.net>; Robert
>> Foster <rfos...@nmsu.edu>; Margaret Wilson <margaretwilso...@gmail.com>; Lee
>> Stevens <sldstev...@msn.com>; Allen Wright <siz...@hotmail.com>; Grady
>> Viramontes <gra...@comcast.net>; Cordie Ross <cor...@alum.dartmouth.org>;
>> Gary Grogg <gggr...@hotmail.com>; Don Martin <dmartin...@gmail.com>; Steve
>> Peerman <gypca...@comcast.net>; Andy Eby <kver...@aol.com>; Hadley Robinson
>> <hadl...@htg.net>; Mike Bilbo (home) <mbbi...@yahoo.com>; Janice Tucker
>> <janice.tuc...@live.com>; Jeff Lory <jkl...@yahoo.com>; Lawrence Foreman
>> <lawrence.r.fore...@saic.com>; Arvel Thomas <abthomi...@comcast.net>; John
>> Moses <johnmo...@excite.com>; Larry Foreman <forema...@saic.com>; Stephen
>> Fleming <casto...@gmail.com>; Bill Godby <billgo...@gmail.com>; Michael
>> McWhirter <mikelis...@msn.com>; Mailing List for SWR <s...@caver.net>
>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 12:31 PM
>> Subject: Fwd: Petition to keep public caves open to the public
>>
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: seileo...@gmail.com
>>> Date: April 13, 2012 9:16:01 AM MDT
>>> To: saltydigg...@yahoogroups.com, saltyrockeat...@yahoogroups.com,
>>> northeastcaveconserva...@yahoogroups.com, cavedigg...@yahoogroups.com
>>> Bcc: speleob...@comcast.net
>>> Subject: Petition to keep public caves open to the public
>>>
>>> Hey, all,
>>>
>>> As you may know, the CBD is petitioning the White House to close all
>>> public caves and fine private landowners who keep their caves open.
>>> This is a serious threat to the caves, which are often vandalized when
>>> responsible visitation is removed, and does nothing to protect the
>>> bats since WNS is spread bat-to-bat. Human contributions to spread can
>>> be effectively controlled with decon, assuming a human vector ever
>>> existed. Closing publicly owned caves to the public is a threat to
>>> conservation, a limitation of freedom, and is based on bad science,
>>> and I am tired of not standing up to say that. If you support this
>>> cause, please sign this counter petition to keep the caves open.
>>>
>>> https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/support-conservation-recreation-science-and-personal-freedom-mandating-public-access-caves-public/YX8Bjp3F
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> John Dunham
>>
>> Kathy Peerman
>> speleob...@comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> SWR mailing list
>> s...@caver.net
>> http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
>
Kathy Peerman
speleob...@comcast.net
_______________________________________________
SWR mailing list
s...@caver.net
http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net
