texascavers Digest 20 Mar 2013 04:25:50 -0000 Issue 1725
Topics (messages 21464 through 21476):
At the Washington monument
21464 by: BMorgan994.aol.com
Fees Announcement for the TSA Spring Meeting, April 5-7
21465 by: caverarch
UT Grotto Meeting Match 20th
21466 by: Andrea Croskrey
BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
21467 by: Frank Binney
21468 by: Phil Winkler
21469 by: Mimi Jasek
21470 by: Stefan Creaser
21472 by: Stephen Fleming
21476 by: Butch Fralia
NSS President explains BOG proposal to end printed news
21471 by: Frank Binney
Re: [FloridaCavers] NSS proposal to end the printed News
21473 by: caverarch
Thank you.
21474 by: Espeleo Coahuila
NSS News
21475 by: Mixon Bill
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Enough of fear. Let's stick to perversity and the growth rate of formations
in unlikely places.
A DC caver friend who some of you may know works for the Park Service and
for many years had the unenviable task of chasing the gay guys out of the
men's room at the Washington monument at the end of each day. It seems that
they were greatly inspired by the great obelisk and were leaving rapidly
growing "deposits" not unlike the _amberrat_
(http://cdri.org/publications/nature-notes/animals/mammals/packrats/)
deposits sometimes found in the
latrines of packrats, but of a different substance. Perhaps moon milk is a
better metaphore?
I must apologize in advance for the ditty this brings to mind, one I once
wrote to a paramour:
If your clit was a cave pearl
I'd tie off my rope
descend in the void
and abandon all hope.
A phallic formation is the first thing I see,
but it's not made of calcite
that stalagmite is me!
Dripping from the tip,
drip by drip,
it forms a new rock
that accretes on my knee!
SW
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are the registration rates for the upcoming Spring Convention of the Texas
Speleological Association at Cave Without a Name, Boerne, Texas:
Individual Registration $16 per person
Family Registration ≥ 3 persons $40
This registration includes camping for Friday and Saturday nights, attendance
at the paper sessions during the day on Saturday, the TSA Business Meeting, the
Big Meal on Saturday Night followed by the always fun TCMA Auction.
Sunday morning highlights will be the TCMA Breakfast and Meeting, as well as an
opportunity to tour Cave Without a Name.
See the TSA Web Site for further details!
Roger G. Moore
Vice Chair
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy Texas Cavers,
This week we get to hear what was discovered at the cave near Mason, TX,
which a landowner was awesome enough to invite us to checkout at the last
grotto meeting. Then Pete Strickland will share his video of Deep Cave. I
think we all will be glad to see Pete back at the grotto meetings!
UT Grotto meeting - Wednesday from 7:45PM- 9:00PM
University of Texas Campus in 2.48 Painter Hall (156 West 24th Street,
Austin TX 78712) http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html
For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.org
Before the meeting, take advantage of Sao Paulo www.saopaulos.net for
happy hour specials. This area is the best place to park and meet folks
walking over to the meeting. Then after the official meeting, we continue
with the decades long tradition to reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall
tales of caving at Posse East. www.posse-east.com
Cavingly,
Andrea Croskrey
UT Grotto Vice Chair & Program Organizer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI to Texas Cavers:
There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday¹s NSS Board
of Governor¹s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of
your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent
comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by
surprise (he hadn¹t be informed of the pending proposal).
For more info, consult an NSS BOG member.
Frank NSS 10816F
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/
Phil
On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote:
> FYI to Texas Cavers:
> There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board
> of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your
> regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment
> on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he
> hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal).
> For more info, consult an NSS BOG member.
> Frank NSS 10816F
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excuse me? Cancel our printed magazine? I think not. Something like that would
need to be voted on by all members. They can cut corners another way, for I
personally read as little as possible on line. Besides, our printed library
would suffer!
Mimi Jasek
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Frank Binney <fr...@frankbinney.com> wrote:
> FYI to Texas Cavers:
> There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday’s NSS Board
> of Governor’s meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your
> regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment
> on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he
> hadn’t be informed of the pending proposal).
> For more info, consult an NSS BOG member.
> Frank NSS 10816F
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wonder if this one'll drag on as long as the TSA newsletter discussion of the
same? ;-)
Cheers,
Stefan
From: Phil Winkler [mailto:pw...@dca.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:16 PM
To: Frank Binney
Cc: Texas Cavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/
Phil
On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote:
FYI to Texas Cavers:
There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of
Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your
regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on
the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he
hadn't be informed of the pending proposal).
For more info, consult an NSS BOG member.
Frank NSS 10816F
-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
medium. Thank you.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The sooner the News is available in high rez PDF, the better. It is
_long_ overdue. Higher quality and, most importantly, searchable. It's
way past time to bring the publication up to the equivalent of LED
lights and nylon replacing manila ropes and carbide lights. There are
substantial savings to be had in printing and postage costs. Continuing
to spend signifcant funds on a paper version borders on negligence when
a far more economical production method exists.
Stephen Fleming
On 03/19/2013 17:26, Mimi Jasek wrote:
Excuse me? Cancel our printed magazine? I think not. Something like
that would need to be voted on by all members. They can cut corners
another way, for I personally read as little as possible on line.
Besides, our printed library would suffer!
Mimi Jasek
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2013, at 6:10 PM, Frank Binney <fr...@frankbinney.com
<mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com>> wrote:
BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers:
There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturdayâs
NSS Board of Governorâs meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS
News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated
considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has
caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadnât be informed of the
pending proposal).
For more info, consult an NSS BOG member.
Frank NSS 10816F
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other
organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed
version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach,
the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version
and dropped the cost of printing significantly.
Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA
Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water
soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized.
Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy
available isnt' a bad thing.
Butch Fralia
From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
FYI to Texas Cavers:
There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board
of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of
your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent
comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by
surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal).
For more info, consult an NSS BOG member.
Frank NSS 10816F
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI:
------ Forwarded Message
From: Wm Shrewsbury <presid...@caves.org>
Reply-To: <nssw...@yahoogroups.com>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 20:53:00 -0400
To: <nssw...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Everyone,
There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before
the board. This post is a ³quick² synopsis and not meant to be all
inclusive.
The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year.
Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we
have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in
various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not
affected the membership at large.
Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal.
This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive
hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication
with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the
News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used.
This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up).
We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lion¹s share of the budget
lies in the OVP and EVP departments.
In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the
years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest
budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we
have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken
effect, pending the outcome of the Board¹s budget decisions.
The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this
department are ³blue-line². For those who may not know, line items in blue
in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the
³budget²; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could
assist a deficit budget include:
- Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable
choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and
eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to
include this in the budget.
- Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items
we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few
requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically,
and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no
stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte
system for members since the fall of ¹11.
We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a "thank you"
we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the
proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues
decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted
price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner.
This budget was presented as a "wake up call". The entire Board, Officers
and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the
membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take
time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include:
- The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those
options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands.
- Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute
a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall,
but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a
sustainable level.
- Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently
is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had
adequate time to fully review this option.
- Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We
would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News
electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated
that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase.
Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining
our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our
membership.
The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member
services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several
years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless
we increase our membership to a sustainable level.
To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to
your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to
³spread the cost² for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on
one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society.
Thank you,
Wm Shrewsbury
President, National Speleological Society
------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
Coming Events:
March 22-23-24, 2013
NSS Board of Governors Meeting
Hosted by San Francisco Bay Chapter
Menlo Park - All cavers welcome!
Info: www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html
April 27-28, 2013
Orientation to Cave Rescue
Sequoia-Kings Canyon Natl. Parks
Contact Roger Mortimer for details
May 17-18-19, 2013
Speleo-Ed Seminar - Millerton Lakes, Prather, CA
Hosted by Stanislaus Grotto
June 1-8, 2013
National Cave Rescue Commission, Western Region
Week-long Training, Level 1 only
Lava Beds National Monument
July 21-28, 2013
16th International Congress of Speleology
Brno, Czech Republic
www.speleo2013.com
August 5-9, 2013
NSS National Convention - Shippensburg, PA
www.nss2013.com
August 30-September 2, 2013
Northwestern and Western Regional Weekend
Trailhead Bed and Breakfast. Trout Lake, Washington
Hosted by Willamette Valley Grotto
May 16-24, 2014
National Cave Rescue Commission
Week-long training
Colorado
July, 2016
75th Anniversary - National Speleological Society
NSS Annual Convention - Ely, Nevada!
www.facebook.com/nss75th
Twitter: @nss75th
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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------ End of Forwarded Message
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a forward by a Florida caver of NSS President Wm Shrewsbury's summary
of the budget situation and the proposal to cease a printed NSS News.
Roger G. Moore
This is a response by Wm Shrewsbury to the proposal to end the printed NSS News.
Wendy
-----Original Message-----
From: Wm Shrewsbury <presid...@caves.org>
To: NSSwest <nssw...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 19, 2013 8:53 pm
Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Everyone,
There has been a lot of discussion about the upcoming budget proposal before
the board. This post is a quick synopsis and not meant to be all
inclusive.
The EC meets each year to create a budget for the upcoming fiscal year.
Primarily due to things beyond our control, such as the national economy, we
have had to trim our budgets for the last five years. Small surpluses in
various areas have allowed us to keep our services at a level that has not
affected the membership at large.
Last year we moved our Regular members to a digital version of the Journal.
This was well received. About a dozen members wished to continue to receive
hard copies, and they have subscribed to it as an additional publication
with a member discount. The EC understands that these the Journal and the
News are appreciated differently by our membership and how it can be used.
This year the EC trimmed all the minor line items first (it all adds up).
We then moved to alternate solutions. By far the lions share of the budget
lies in the OVP and EVP departments.
In the OVP department many items are fixed (with slow increases over the
years) Internet, phone, paper, postage, etc. While it is the largest
budget there are very few places to make cuts. As has been noted here we
have proposed releasing our part-time shipping clerk. This has not taken
effect, pending the outcome of the Boards budget decisions.
The next largest department is the EVP. Many of the items in this
department are blue-line. For those who may not know, line items in blue
in our budget are funded by restricted funds and thus are not part of the
budget; money in = money out. Items in the EVP department that could
assist a deficit budget include:
- Publish the ACA digitally with a limited run in paper. This is a viable
choice. It allows us to distribute the ACA to our membership quicker and
eases the size restraints budgets would impose on it. The EC opted to
include this in the budget.
- Publish the News digitally with a limited run in paper. Of all the items
we considered, this was one of the toughest. There have been quite a few
requests for several years from members to obtain their News electronically,
and just as many who would prefer paper to electrons. This idea was no
stranger to the EC we have been talking about permitting an al a carte
system for members since the fall of 11.
We would like to offer a digital News to our membership. As a "thank you"
we would like to offer a dues discount. You will find a compromise in the
proposed budget The News would be distributed digitally, regular dues
decreased to $35 with a paper subscription option at a member discounted
price. We have proposed this step to balance the budget in a timely manner.
This budget was presented as a "wake up call". The entire Board, Officers
and Directors alike, are pouring over our numbers and listening to the
membership. Many options have been presented, several of which will take
time to examine. A few that are currently on the table include:
- The Board may direct the EC to research more options and present those
options in a few months, leaving the service level as it currently stands.
- Borrow from one of the larger funds to cover the shortfall as we institute
a membership drive. This would treat the symptom of this year's shortfall,
but it does not resolve the cause. We must increase our membership to a
sustainable level.
- Print the News as a bi-monthly publication, the same size as it currently
is, with additional content in the web-based version. We have not had
adequate time to fully review this option.
- Leave the News as a monthly print publication and raise dues by $10. We
would offer a discount to those who wish to receive the News
electronically. This would nearly close the gap, however it is anticipated
that membership drives might be impeded by a dues increase.
Please bear with us as we attempt to balance our budget while maintaining
our services to you. It will be difficult at best until we can increase our
membership.
The reality is that we need 11K members to maintain our current member
services. We have been hovering around the 10K level for the last several
years. We cannot continue to maintain the our same level of service unless
we increase our membership to a sustainable level.
To start this membership drive off, I'd like to encourage you to talk to
your caving peers who are not currently members. This will allow us to
spread the cost for everyone. The most effective recruitment is a one on
one conversation between friends. Please help us help you help the Society.
Thank you,
Wm Shrewsbury
President, National Speleological Society
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi friends..
I want to dedicate this month by all of you!
You are my family and I'm a very lucky to have a wonderful texas caver
family!
I don't want to forget, that you are very important in my life.
Thanks for help me and support me in all my Cancer treatments
I had 3 years with out cancer, the next week I have the next appointment
with the doctor and the next year possible finish the treatment.
wiht your love I can do it!!!
Thank you!
Love you. Moni.
--
LCC. Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez
Asociacion Coahuilense de Espeleologia, A.C. (fundadora)
Associazione Geografica La Venta- Italia (socia)
Centro de Estudios Karsticos La Venta (socia)
Grupo Espeleologico Vaxakmen, A.C. (socia)
Association for Mexican Cave Studies (colaboradora)
Texas Speleological Association (Socia)
Union Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleologicas (Socia)
045-844-1478311 cel.
monicaponce1 by skype.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The NSS News is _the_ tangible benefit that most NSS members get. If I
stopped getting it on paper, I might just drop my membership, if I
wasn't in the ~ 10 percent of members who attend the convention and
get a registration discount equal to dues (and if I wasn't a life
member). Has the overhead in the society's budget (mainly the office)
decreased as the membership has dropped? The society has just appeased
its edifice complex by buying a big new "headquarters." While the cost
of the property will no doubt be paid for by donations for the
purpose, I suspect that overhead will increase when it ought to be
decreasing. Work expands to fill the space available.
Cutting the most visible member service is not the way to grow the
membership. I think board members are, perhaps naturally, prone to
overestimate how interested most members of the NSS are in intangible
services such as promoting cave conservation and, to a minor extent,
cave science. That so few regular members have opted to continue to
get the journal on paper is not an indication of interest in a paper
News. The journal is (too) specialized, and anyway, the membership
renewal form on the web _still_, almost two years after the change to
make the paper journal optional at extra cost, has no notice of that
and no way to pay that cost. (Talk about spectacular administrative
incompetence!) -- Mixon
----------------------------------------
Don't be led astray into the paths of virtue.
----------------------------------------
You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
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--- End Message ---
