texascavers Digest 21 Aug 2011 03:03:54 -0000 Issue 1370
Topics (messages 18361 through 18371):
Martian sinkhole
18361 by: Mixon Bill
news from deepest cave
18362 by: Mixon Bill
Re: [SandiaGrotto] Martian sinkhole
18363 by: Lee H. Skinner
Cave Archaeology in South Africa; 3D Disto
18364 by: Mark Minton
Re: [SWR] Martian sinkhole
18365 by: Lee H. Skinner
3D distance meter
18366 by: Mixon Bill
Questionnaire
18367 by: Ron Ralph
Improving GPS Altitude Accuracy
18368 by: Mark Minton
improving GPS accuracy
18369 by: Mixon Bill
Volcano of Bats in Calakmul
18370 by: Espeleo Coahuila
Re: Explore the outdoors with Trail Maps by National Geographic
18371 by: Robert Tait
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"How much of the missing material has disappeared via the pit into the
underground cavern?" I'd say all of it. Symmetry remarkable. Would be
nice to know how steep that slope is. -- Mixon
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News of trip into the world's deepest cave, posted in Spanish to the
Tlamaqui e-mail list by Franco Attolini Smithers (a really
international combination of names). What follows is Google
translation into English (sort of). Machine translation has a long way
to go. For those who can read the original Spanish, it is appended.--
Mixon
Well here to talk a bit about the last expedition I attended the
Western Caucasus. This expedition was intended to dive the siphon "Two
Captains" of the cave to-2140m Voronja Krubera deep. The trap had been
Oleg Klimchouk dived to 30m depth and then by Gennadiy Samokhin up to
46 m deep. This time the challenge was that Bazilevskiy Yuriy alias
"BZ" pass mark to make the cave had a whole-2200m.
This expedition was organized by the Team headed by Denis Cavex
Provalov, who have been exploring the chasm at least 10 years.
On July 24, take a plane to Moscow and then to Sochi, southern Russia,
then I met at the airport with "BZ" the diver of the expedition. A
member of the expedition and native of Sochi picked us up and made us
the favor to bring us to the Russian border, Abkhazia, where we
crossed without problems because the situation is much more stable now
and not in other years to coyote had to pay for illegally crossing the
border. Once we crossed the city of Gantiadi already in Abkhazia, met
with the group that had arrived very early and had spent the day at
the beach sunbathing. Before going to sleep good chops dinner as a
farewell of civilization.
We went the next day in a 4x4 truck to the vicinity of the base camp
below it about 300 meters of altitude. For three days we were spinning
everything you need to climb, they were pretty rough days that the
charges were of at least 20 kilos and the sun was beating hard.
Finally on the fourth day we enter the cave, including Alan W to check
the phone line and get food for the bivouacs, was a short entry and
just go down to-350m. The next day we Alan, Denis and me with food
to-700m was down and out faster than I thought that the cave at that
point is easy with large hole. After a day of rest we go again with
food and diving equipment to the bivouac-1400m where we spend the
night and left the next day, a 1400m-700m-I felt a little long and did
not know well but arriving-700m was like being at home and we very well.
We had warmed up a bit first loads and then with three trips to the
cave was really exciting to have been deeper than ever before-1400m
and it was only for heating. So the big day came down to the bottom,
prepare everything you need and leave early, heading for the bivouac
1400m, there we slept. The next morning we went in the direction of
the bivouac-1600m, but there seems little to spend a siphon apnea and
pass all the bags that you were associated with 2 persons so it takes
a while to cross everything and then get to the bivouac . We slept two
nights that had to carry more bags from the trap-1400m to
bivouac-1600m. So once made the tasks that continue down to the
bivouac bivouac-2000m, well they call him that even some-1990m. One
more day of work carrying bags and finally the last day of carrying
bags continue to fall to the bottom. We crossed the second siphon is
about 4 or 5 times longer than the first. It is more or less than 15 m
and 5 m deep in this if it is necessary and scuba tanks that have to
carry bags on hand because it is complicated and can not pull a rope
across. Once that happens you need to pass a third mini siphon a meter
before going down to the maximum depth of 2140m, where is the trap
"two captains". Once we embarked on our return the bags to the
bivouac-2000m where we toasted the good work and clear break some
personal records. So we took our departure to the surface to make room
for the diver and his colleagues in the bivouac-2000m that only fit 5
people. We went from the bivouac to the de-1400m and after we went to
sleep there. Two days later we went down the mountain we had to fly
home.
Actually, this cave has everything, big pots, meandering, narrow
fairways, traps, it is cold and clear is profound.
I remembered much of Gustav V, who had been 5 years ago in the same
cave and he lend me your monkey for Petrel inside muchismo I served in
the cave.
To us play the first set everything aside from diving, unfortunately
it seems the latest news is that the diver had failed to make a
strait-18m deep at the drain terminal so far as we could not break the
previous record. Anyway it was a very good experience, the Russians
are really good people, good hosts and good cavers.
-------------------------------------
Bueno aquí para platicarles un poco de la ultima expedición a la que
asistí en el Caucazo Occidental. Esta expedición tenia como finalidad
bucear el sifón ” Dos capitanes” de la cueva Krubera Voronja a -2140m
de profundidad. Este sifón ya había sido buceado por Oleg Klimchouk
hasta 30m de profundidad y después por Gennadiy Samokhin hasta 46 m
de profundidad. Esta vez el reto era que Yuriy Bazilevskiy alias ”BZ”
pasara esta marca para lograr que la cueva tuviera -2200m en su
totalidad.
Esta expedición fue organizada por el Cavex Team liderada por Denis
Provalov, quienes llevan explorando la sima por lo menos 10 años.
El 24 de Julio tome un avión hacia Moscu y de ahí a Sochi, al sur de
Rusia, ahí en el aeropuerto me encontré con ”BZ” el buzo de la
expedición. Una integrante de la expedición que e originaria de Sochi
nos recogió y nos hizo el favor de llevarnos hasta la frontera Rusa-
Abkhazia, donde cruzamos sin problemas gracias a que la situación es
mucho mas estable ahora y no como en otros años que hasta pollero
tuvieron que pagar para cruzar ilegalmente la frontera. Una vez que
cruzamos a la ciudad de Gantiadi, ya en Abkhazia, nos reunimos con el
grupo que había llegado desde muy temprano y había pasado el día en la
playa tomando el sol. Antes de ir a dormir cenamos unas buenas
chuletas como despedida de la civilización.
Subimos al día siguiente en unos camiones 4x4 hasta las cercanías
del campamento base por debajo del mismo unos 300m de desnivel.
Durante tres días estuvimos dando vueltas para subir todo lo
necesario, fueron días un poco duros por que las cargas eran de mínimo
20 kilos y el sol pegaba duro.
Por fin al cuarto día pudimos entran a la cueva, entre con Alan W para
checar la línea de teléfono y bajar comida para los vivacs, fue una
entrada corta y solo bajamos hasta -350m. Al día siguiente entramos
Alan, Denis y yo con comida hasta -700m y salimos fue una bajada mas
rápida de lo que pensé por que la cueva hasta ese punto es muy fácil
con pozo grandes. después de un día de descanso bajamos de nuevo con
comida y equipo de buceo hasta el vivac de -1400m donde pasamos la
noche y salimos al día siguiente, de -1400m a -700m se me hizo un poco
largo por que no conocía bien pero llegando a -700m era como estar en
casa y salimos muy bien.
Ya habíamos calentado un poco primero subiendo las cargas y después
con tres viajes a la cueva, era realmente emocionante el haber estado
mas profundo que nunca antes a -1400m y solo era para calentar. Así
que llego el gran día de bajar hasta el fondo, preparamos todo lo
necesario y salimos temprano rumbo al vivac de -1400m , ahí dormimos.
A la mañana siguiente nos fuimos con dirección del vivac de -1600m,
parece poco pero hay que pasar un sifón en apnea y pasar todas las
sacas que en te aso eran 2 por personas así que toma un buen tiempo
cruzar todo y después llegar al vivac. Ahí dormimos dos noches por que
hubo que acarrear mas sacas desde el sifón de -1400m hasta el vivac de
-1600m. Así que una vez hechas las tareas en ese vivac continuamos
bajando hasta el vivac de -2000m, bueno así le llaman aun que esta a
unos -1990m. Un día mas de trabajo acarreando sacas y finalmente el
ultimo día de seguir bajando llevando sacas al fondo. Cruzamos el
segundo sifón que es unas 4 o 5 veces mas largo que el primero. Es mas
o menos de 15 m y unos 5 m de profundidad, en este si es necesario
llevar tanques de buceo ya que las sacas hay que llevarlas en la mano
por que es complicado y no se pueden jalar con una cuerda del otro
lado. Una vez que se pasa es necesario pasar un tercer mini sifón de
un metro antes de seguir bajando hasta la profundidad máxima de -2140m
donde esta el sifón ”dos capitanes”. Una vez que dejamos las sacas
emprendimos nuestro regreso al vivac de -2000m donde brindamos por el
buen trabajo y claro por romper algunos records personales. Así
emprendimos nuestra salida a la superficie para dejar espacio al buzo
y sus compañeros en el vivac de -2000m por que solo caben 5 personas.
Subimos desde ese vivac hasta el de -1400m y después de dormir ahí
salimos. Dos días después bajamos la montaña por que teníamos que
volar a casa.
Realmente esta cueva tiene de todo, pozos grandes, meandros, pasos
estrechos, sifones, es fría, y claro es profunda.
Me acorde mucho de Gustavo V que habia estado 5 años atras en la
misma cueva y quien me hizo favor de prestarme su mono interior Petrel
que me sirvio muchismo en la cueva.
A nosotros nos toco la primer aparte de preparar todo para el buceo,
lamentablemente al parecer las ultimas noticias que tuvimos es que el
buzo no logro pasar un estrecho a -18m de profundidad en el sifón
terminal así que hasta donde sabemos no se pudo romper el record
anterior. Pero bueno fue una muy buena expe, los rusos realmente
buenas personas, buenos anfitriones y buenos cueveros.
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On 8/18/2011 11:38 AM, Tenzin Beck wrote:
Not likely a meteor-- it's too conical, and has no sign of a rim or
nearby ejecta. Always hard to judge scale and angles in these kinds of
images... anyway, my guess is that the underlying lava tube had a
partial collapse on its own, causing the sand/regolith to funnel in.
-Tenzin
At this point, I wouldn't rule out either theory. A small meteor
hitting a deep layer of sand over a lava tube may have been sufficient
force to cause a collapse. The original rim and ejecta may have been
much smaller, and thus swallowed along with the sand falling into the
opening.
Lee Skinner
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There is an article about a recently documented shelter cave
in South Africa called Klipdrift in the online publication Technology
& More by Trimble
<http://www.trimble.com/technologyandmore/i2-2011/>. See p.
4-5. The article is from a surveyor's perspective, but may still be
interesting to caver archaeologists.
There is also a new 3D version of the Disto that can record
distances and angles in three dimensions, as well as take photos for
documentation
<http://www.leica-geosystems.com/en/Leica-3D-Disto_94606.htm>. It
only costs $8000. ;-)
Mark Minton
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
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On 8/18/2011 11:29 AM, Peter Jones wrote:
That is cool!! Sign me up for the survey trip....
But be careful, Peter. It could also be the home of the endangered
Giant Martian Ant-Lion. When you repel in, take some bear spray.!
Lee Skinner
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Hmm. That new Leica 3D thingie (http://www.leica-geosystems.com/en/Leica-3D-Disto_94606.htm
) looks like, with the right software, it might be a relatively
inexpensive LIDAR unit--but still $8000. -- Mixon
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The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
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This came into my mailbox and I thought some cavers might want to respond.
Ron
Texas Parks Seek Public Input on Recreation Plan
AUSTIN - What do citizens think of the park systems in Texas? What kinds of
outdoor recreational opportunities do they want? The Texas Parks and
Wildlife Department is seeking input from local stakeholders about the
future of park systems in the state.
"We want to know more about Texans' recreational habits, what's working and
areas where we could improve," said TPWD Recreation Grants Program Manager
Dana Lagarde. "Citizen input is vital in our development of the Texas
Outdoor Recreation Plan (TORP) for 2012-2017."
Lagarde said survey results will help TPWD identify outdoor recreation needs
and guide funding opportunities through the federal Land & Water
Conservation Fund and other grant programs. Examples of activities to
consider for local parks include nature trails, splash pads and ball fields.
State parks such as Government Canyon and Garner have been able to add
acreage thanks to public needs assessments like the TORP.
Anyone may complete the survey on the TORP
<http://204.64.0.121/TakeSurvey.aspx?SurveyID=74ML7n4> survey website from
now through Sept. 26.--
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20110815b
Dana Lagarde
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department
Recreation Grants Branch
Local Park Grants Section Manager
(512)389-8175
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Altitude measurement from GPS has always been the least
accurate dimension, especially in mountainous areas. New research
provides a way to potentially correct these measurements to
centimeter accuracy. <http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/gps3d.htm>
Mark Minton
Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
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That scheme applies only to differential GPS, where there are two
receivers involved, one stationary one for reference and one roving
one. That enables you to cancel out some random errors, which was
especially useful when the signals were deliberately degraded for
civilians in past years. But it is not what cavers usually do. -- Mixon
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Hi friends,
It`s about the bats in the Volcano Cave, in Calakmul, Campeche.
IN my recently expedition in May.
hope you can understand spanish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuZ_GgDHBvk
Love
Moni Ponce
--
LCC Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez
San Antonio, Texas
espeleocoahu...@gmail.com
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I bought the app. The topo maps are scanned (Some day we will have vector
maps). When the screen resolution goes above .5 mile, the
image automatically goes to the aerial view.
It takes 10 minutes to download a map section.
Sometimes when I pinch or spread the screen it drops pushpins instead.
Still having maps on the iPhone can be very handy when the cell signals are
down.. You just have to plan ahead and download them early.
Hopefully I can post a field test soon.
cheers
Rob In Upstate NY
On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 6:37 PM, <germa...@aol.com> wrote:
> I bet you could use this for caving, too! At least ridge walking......
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: National Geographic <n...@newsletters.nationalgeographic.com>
> To: germanyj <germa...@aol.com>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:59 pm
> Subject: Explore the outdoors with Trail Maps by National Geographic
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> Navigate
> through the backcountry or your urban jungle with *Trail Maps* by National
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