texascavers Digest 23 Mar 2011 17:35:40 -0000 Issue 1272
Topics (messages 17412 through 17426):
Shafter
17412 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
17413 by: Gill Edigar
17414 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
17420 by: SS
17422 by: Fritz Holt
17423 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net
caving gear for Mars
17415 by: David
sort of cave photography related
17416 by: David
Berry Cave Salamander
17417 by: David
related to caves on Mars
17418 by: David
Kartchner Caverns
17419 by: David
Book sales at TSA Spring Convention
17421 by: Jim Kennedy
The NSS Wants YOU
17424 by: R D Milhollin
LED flashlight review
17425 by: David
17426 by: Louise Power
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
Its OT, but I visited the property a year ago. There is more proven silver in
the ground than the total of all that was ever mined out before. It's an
economic no-brainer and a good mining venture. I guess they finally found a
wise investor.
DirtDoc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Edigar" <gi...@att.net>
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 8:08:56 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Speaking of silver
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TM Raines < tmrai...@amcs.org >
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:02 PM
Subject: Fwd: Speaking of silver
To: Gill Ediger < bgillegi...@gmail.com >
Did you see this Gill..... Terry
Subject: Speaking of silver,
....still a little left in Texas.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9M2CIT01&show_article=1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are those the same guys that are putting the deal together to reopen the
mine at Real de Catorce? This is not OT. As a caver travelling through Big
Bend we always stopped at Shafter and other mines in the area. Many cavers
care about Big Bend, the history, geography, mining, people, and other
interesting features of the place. This is totally caver relevant.
--Ediger
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:15 AM, <dirt...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Its OT, but I visited the property a year ago. There is more proven silver
> in the ground than the total of all that was ever mined out before. It's an
> economic no-brainer and a good mining venture. I guess they finally found a
> wise investor.
>
>
>
> DirtDoc
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gill Edigar" <gi...@att.net>
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 8:08:56 AM
> Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Speaking of silver
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: TM Raines <tmrai...@amcs.org>
> Date: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:02 PM
> Subject: Fwd: Speaking of silver
> To: Gill Ediger <bgillegi...@gmail.com>
>
>
> Did you see this Gill..... Terry
>
> *Subject: **Speaking of silver, *
>
>
>
> ....still a little left in Texas.
>
> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9M2CIT01&show_article=1
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know about Caorce - I don't think so.
I was first in the abandonded workings at Shafter in 1967 with cavers and
geology students from Sul Ross. Without a doubt the most frightening, unstable,
place I have ever been. It did not sink in how awfully rotten it was until I
was much too far inside and I realized the full significance of the slowly
exploded wooden ground supports..
I was again (VERY caaaaautiously) in a small part of it in the late 70s. It
was worse! (Or my awareness greater, probably both)
Since that experience, the most unstable breakdown in a natural cave has seemed
like the Rock of Gibralter by comparison. That's not to mean I have not
exercised caution as appropriate in caves!
Look forward to seeing all you April Fools again ---
DirtDoc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Edigar" <gi...@att.net>
To: dirt...@comcast.net
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 12:24:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Shafter
Are those the same guys that are putting the deal together to reopen the mine
at Real de Catorce? This is not OT. As a caver travelling through Big Bend we
always stopped at Shafter and other mines in the area. Many cavers care about
Big Bend, the history, geography, mining, people, and other interesting
features of the place. This is totally caver relevant.
--Ediger
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:15 AM, < dirt...@comcast.net > wrote:
Its OT, but I visited the property a year ago. There is more proven silver in
the ground than the total of all that was ever mined out before. It's an
economic no-brainer and a good mining venture. I guess they finally found a
wise investor.
DirtDoc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Edigar" < gi...@att.net >
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 8:08:56 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Speaking of silver
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TM Raines < tmrai...@amcs.org >
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:02 PM
Subject: Fwd: Speaking of silver
To: Gill Ediger < bgillegi...@gmail.com >
Did you see this Gill..... Terry
Subject: Speaking of silver,
....still a little left in Texas.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9M2CIT01&show_article=1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Surely they have ways to bore out the old tunnels and install new supports. Or
maybe they'll just turn it into a giant open pit mine.
SS
On Mar 21, 2011, at 6:43 PM, dirt...@comcast.net wrote:
> I don't know about Caorce - I don't think so.
>
>
>
> I was first in the abandonded workings at Shafter in 1967 with cavers and
> geology students from Sul Ross. Without a doubt the most frightening,
> unstable, place I have ever been. It did not sink in how awfully rotten it
> was until I was much too far inside and I realized the full significance of
> the slowly exploded wooden ground supports..
>
>
>
> I was again (VERY caaaaautiously) in a small part of it in the late 70s. It
> was worse! (Or my awareness greater, probably both)
>
>
>
> Since that experience, the most unstable breakdown in a natural cave has
> seemed like the Rock of Gibralter by comparison. That's not to mean I have
> not exercised caution as appropriate in caves!
>
>
>
> Look forward to seeing all you April Fools again ---
>
>
>
> DirtDoc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gill Edigar" <gi...@att.net>
> To: dirt...@comcast.net
> Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 12:24:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Shafter
>
> Are those the same guys that are putting the deal together to reopen the mine
> at Real de Catorce? This is not OT. As a caver travelling through Big Bend we
> always stopped at Shafter and other mines in the area. Many cavers care about
> Big Bend, the history, geography, mining, people, and other interesting
> features of the place. This is totally caver relevant.
>
> --Ediger
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:15 AM, <dirt...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Its OT, but I visited the property a year ago. There is more proven silver
> in the ground than the total of all that was ever mined out before. It's an
> economic no-brainer and a good mining venture. I guess they finally found a
> wise investor.
>
>
>
> DirtDoc
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gill Edigar" <gi...@att.net>
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 8:08:56 AM
> Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Speaking of silver
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: TM Raines <tmrai...@amcs.org>
> Date: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:02 PM
> Subject: Fwd: Speaking of silver
> To: Gill Ediger <bgillegi...@gmail.com>
>
>
> Did you see this Gill..... Terry
>
> Subject: Speaking of silver,
>
>
> ....still a little left in Texas.
> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9M2CIT01&show_article=1
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I am remembering correctly, the newspaper article said the mine tunnels were
1,500 feet below the surface which might negate an open pit mine.
Fritz
________________________________
From: SS [mailto:back2scool...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:42 PM
To: dirt...@comcast.net
Cc: Gill Edigar; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Shafter
Surely they have ways to bore out the old tunnels and install new supports. Or
maybe they'll just turn it into a giant open pit mine.
SS
On Mar 21, 2011, at 6:43 PM, dirt...@comcast.net<mailto:dirt...@comcast.net>
wrote:
I don't know about Caorce - I don't think so.
I was first in the abandonded workings at Shafter in 1967 with cavers and
geology students from Sul Ross. Without a doubt the most frightening, unstable,
place I have ever been. It did not sink in how awfully rotten it was until I
was much too far inside and I realized the full significance of the slowly
exploded wooden ground supports..
I was again (VERY caaaaautiously) in a small part of it in the late 70s. It
was worse! (Or my awareness greater, probably both)
Since that experience, the most unstable breakdown in a natural cave has seemed
like the Rock of Gibralter by comparison. That's not to mean I have not
exercised caution as appropriate in caves!
Look forward to seeing all you April Fools again ---
DirtDoc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Edigar" <gi...@att.net<mailto:gi...@att.net>>
To: <mailto:dirt...@comcast.net> dirt...@comcast.net<mailto:dirt...@comcast.net>
Cc: <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>
texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 12:24:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Shafter
Are those the same guys that are putting the deal together to reopen the mine
at Real de Catorce? This is not OT. As a caver travelling through Big Bend we
always stopped at Shafter and other mines in the area. Many cavers care about
Big Bend, the history, geography, mining, people, and other interesting
features of the place. This is totally caver relevant.
--Ediger
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:15 AM,
<<mailto:dirt...@comcast.net>dirt...@comcast.net<mailto:dirt...@comcast.net>>
wrote:
Its OT, but I visited the property a year ago. There is more proven silver in
the ground than the total of all that was ever mined out before. It's an
economic no-brainer and a good mining venture. I guess they finally found a
wise investor.
DirtDoc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gill Edigar" <<mailto:gi...@att.net>gi...@att.net<mailto:gi...@att.net>>
To: <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>
texascavers@texascavers.com<mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 8:08:56 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Fwd: Speaking of silver
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: TM Raines
<<mailto:tmrai...@amcs.org>tmrai...@amcs.org<mailto:tmrai...@amcs.org>>
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 10:02 PM
Subject: Fwd: Speaking of silver
To: Gill Ediger
<<mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com>bgillegi...@gmail.com<mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com>>
Did you see this Gill..... Terry
Subject: Speaking of silver,
....still a little left in Texas.
<http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9M2CIT01&show_article=1>http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9M2CIT01&show_article=1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are going to bypass all the old workings. The ore is gone from there,
anyhow. Two new shafts (or more) and mine underground to the north of the old
mine.
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Shafter
Surely they have ways to bore out the old tunnels and install new supports. Or
maybe they'll just turn it into a giant open pit mine.
SS
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Somebody posted something about 2 years ago, concerning what would be
suitable caving gear for
Mars.
Here is some new info:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/03/21/nasa-tests-mars-space-suit-argentine-antarctica/?test=faces
I don't see any place to mount the Scurions and a helmet strap would
never work on that configuration.
A person can tolerate a lot of cold when they have good gloves and
good boots and good neck and head
protection. I would rather have gloves that fit over the arm
sleeves and have a gator-like sleeve that goes
up to the elbow, like the ones below, except custom made.
http://arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Gloves/Alpha-SV-Glove
Whoever goes to Mars is just going to have to really love frigid weather.
Somebody like Lonnie Dupree:
http://www.lonniedupre.com/
David Locklear
unofficial candidate for U.S. Ambassador to Mexico
http://www.facebook.com/pages/David-Locklear-for-US-Ambassador-to-Mexico/159385147452007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.360cities.net/image/inside-gila-cliff-dwellings-nm#173.80,16.80,70.0
click on full screen ( top left choice ) and slowly move the mouse around.
He has some other good 360 degree shots.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a news update on a topic that has been discussed on other
forums in the past few days.
http://www.fws.gov/southeast/news/2011/11-028.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/03/robots-search-martian-caves/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if this is news, but you can now order tour tickets on-line
with VISA / Mastercard.
https://azstateparks.itinio.com/kartchnercaverns/tours/
The Big Room tour will be closed soon, but will re-open on October 15th.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cavers, don't forget that the usual vendors (Texas Speleological Survey,
Texas Speleological Association, and Association for Mexican Cave
Studies) will be set up just outside the Service Center at Fort Clark in
a week-and-a-half for the fabulous TSA Spring Convention! Bring cash or
checks! And as a preview, the TSS will have a new edition of the Map CD
ready just for this event! There are 144 new maps added since the last
edition (released in July 2009 for the ICS in Kerrville), and 1379 total
maps. It's still only $10!!! Of course, there are lots of other great
publications on Texas caves that will be for sale. To check 'em out in
advance, and see the prices, go to the TSS website and look at the list
at http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sites/tss/PDF/TSSprices.pdf.
Jim "Crash" Kennedy
TSS Office Manager
p.s. There will also be some real surprises and excitement at the
Saturday evening TCMA Auction, so be sure to attend! It's going to be a
real hoot!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
forward from VAR List
On Mar 21, 2011, at 11:43, Neil Marchington <climbingall...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Fellow Cavers,
After a conversation last night at our grotto meeting
I realized I had not made a pitch for the NSS in a while.
Since I took the time to put the info together, I thought I
would forward it around. Feel free to distribute this to
anyone or any group. The Grotto is a chapter of the National
Speleological Society. The NSS is the largest and most
respected caving organization in the US. The NSS is
dedicated to the preservation, exploration, and study of
caves. They are a national voice for caves and cavers.
The NSS does many things which benefit you, as a
caver:
During the current White Nose-Syndrome issue the NSS
has countered overreaching closures by pushing a
scientifically based reaction to WNS. The President of the
NSS and the NSS WNS liaison (as well as countless other
members and representatives) have mounted a campaign to push
factual scientific information, battle closures through
dialog and compromise, and fund research to better
understand WNS. While many closures have happened, there are
some being lifted already and signs that some may be
averted. The closures would have been probably been much
worse without the dedication of the NSS, Grottos, and the
NSS membership.
NSS members receive the NSS News, a monthly magazine
with beautiful cave photography, cave maps, trip reports,
and articles
http://caves.org/pub/nssnews/.
Members also receive the Members Manual, with contact info for
almost all NSS members, the Journal of Cave and Karst
Studies, and American Caving Accidents.
Members can take trips to 13 different NSS preserves
which include many awesome caves. http://caves.org/preserves/
Members can use the huge NSS Library to obtain
information about caves and caving. Even if you can't get
there, they are only a call or e-mail away.
http://www.caves.org/committee/library/
Members also get discounts on NSS publications at the
NSS Bookstore. http://nssbookstore.org/
The NSS is a wonderful organization, and what brings
us all together on a local and national scale. A variety of
membership levels are available. If you are not a member
already, please take the time to visit the membership
website at http://caves.org/info/member.shtml. As
most of us can tell you, we believe that NSS membership is
worth the money. Further, if you are a member already, take
the time to tell our newer grotto members what the NSS is
about and why you are a member.
Thank You,
Neil Marchington
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought this flashlight at Batteries Plus store.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81KmaAa7LuL._AA1500_.jpg
It uses 2 D size batteries.
The low setting is bright enough for hiking in a dark forest ,and with
the click of the
large switch, the brightness seems to double.
The construction is cheap plastic, but surrounded by an aluminum
shell with thick rubber ends. My bet is the plastic parts will break
long before the rest of the parts on this flashlight.
The light claims to have an adjustable light pattern from flood to spot,
but that is worthless. I would seal this permanently.
The light pattern is tolerable. There is a tiny ring of light around the area
you are shining in the 50 foot to 100 foot range. Beyond that the light
shines good for 200 feet.
Best use for this flashlight would be the glove compartment of a vehicle.
Price was around $ 25, but probably only worth $ 15. I guess you are
paying extra for the circuitry.
The light claims to survive a 15' drop test. I wonder if that was with
the heavy batteries in it ?
Ref.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Rayovac+Roughneck+LED&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=10717348129315168663&sa=X&ei=AY2JTfPjLsiO0QHJ66zfDQ&ved=0CDwQ8gIwBg#
http://store.officeworld.com/ProductImages/united/LargePlus/RAYRNR2DB_1_1.JPG
This light is suitable for walking around in the entrance of
Cottonwood Cave, or La Boca
south of Monterrey, or Goat Cave in Slaughter Canyon, or Bracken Bat
Cave, or any other
big dry cave room near the surface.
It comes with a pair of cheap alkaline batteries.
If I don't take the light back to the store tomorrow, it will end up
as a door prize somewhere someday.
David Locklear
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought one similar to this one at my local Batteres Plus, but mine is
considerably smaller and made of metal. Got a deal on it because I mentioned
the radio station I'd heard about it on. The high light is bright enough that I
wouldn't look directly into it. The low light helps me get into the house
because my porch light is out and I can't see the keyhole without it. The
blinking phase blinks either SOS or a steady sort of flutter blink. It uses
three AAA batteries. It fits into my purse (about 4 1/2 inches long) and I take
it everywhere. Which is a good thing, because it got a friend of mine and I out
of a theatre last week when the electricity went off in the middle of a movie.
> From: dlocklea...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 00:30:16 -0600
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Subject: [Texascavers] LED flashlight review
>
> I bought this flashlight at Batteries Plus store.
>
> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81KmaAa7LuL._AA1500_.jpg
>
> It uses 2 D size batteries.
>
> The low setting is bright enough for hiking in a dark forest ,and with
> the click of the
> large switch, the brightness seems to double.
>
> The construction is cheap plastic, but surrounded by an aluminum
> shell with thick rubber ends. My bet is the plastic parts will break
> long before the rest of the parts on this flashlight.
>
> The light claims to have an adjustable light pattern from flood to spot,
> but that is worthless. I would seal this permanently.
>
> The light pattern is tolerable. There is a tiny ring of light around the area
> you are shining in the 50 foot to 100 foot range. Beyond that the light
> shines good for 200 feet.
>
> Best use for this flashlight would be the glove compartment of a vehicle.
>
> Price was around $ 25, but probably only worth $ 15. I guess you are
> paying extra for the circuitry.
>
> The light claims to survive a 15' drop test. I wonder if that was with
> the heavy batteries in it ?
>
> Ref.
>
> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Rayovac+Roughneck+LED&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=10717348129315168663&sa=X&ei=AY2JTfPjLsiO0QHJ66zfDQ&ved=0CDwQ8gIwBg#
>
> http://store.officeworld.com/ProductImages/united/LargePlus/RAYRNR2DB_1_1.JPG
>
>
> This light is suitable for walking around in the entrance of
> Cottonwood Cave, or La Boca
> south of Monterrey, or Goat Cave in Slaughter Canyon, or Bracken Bat
> Cave, or any other
> big dry cave room near the surface.
>
> It comes with a pair of cheap alkaline batteries.
>
> If I don't take the light back to the store tomorrow, it will end up
> as a door prize somewhere someday.
>
>
> David Locklear
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
--- End Message ---
