Or conduct a study to see how many people would actually be affected by a closure of those selected El Malpais caves. Answer: very, very few.
Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. 700 Billie Brooks Drive Driftwood, Texas 78619 (512) 799-1095 a...@gluesenkamp.com ________________________________ From: Rod Goke <rod.g...@earthlink.net> To: Andy Gluesenkamp <a...@gluesenkamp.com> Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 11:43:44 AM Subject: Re: [Texascavers] El Malpais If the bureaucrats are so interested in research, why don't they make a serious effort to determine scientifically whether or not closing caves helps to prevent WNS? Instead of closing all their caves on the basis of little more than speculation about how cavers might inadvertently spread WNS, why don't they randomly divide their caves into two groups, where one is an "experimental group" with caves closed to recreational caving and where the other is a "control group" with caves remaining open as usual? Then they could actually study whether or not closing caves has a statistically significant effect on the spread of WNS. Do you know of any examples where government bureaucrats have been doing this to study the effectiveness of cave closing? What, if any, other research techniques are they using to determine whether or not cave closing is effective in combating WNS? What, if any, research results are there to justify the prohibition of noncommercial caving while commercial "show cave" operations are allowed to carry on business as usual? Rod L. Rodney Goke, yet another Ph.D. (as if it matters here ;-) 5105 Dusty Trail Cove Austin, Texas 78749 (512) 892-4186 rod.g...@ieee.org -----Original Message----- >From: Andy Gluesenkamp <andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> >Sent: Dec 10, 2010 8:12 AM >To: freddie poer <freddiepoe...@yahoo.com> >Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] El Malpais > >Whaaat? Cloning? Test tube baby bats? Isn't this jumping the gun? >Seriously, > >the most reasonable approach at this time is to document what is there. That >way, we will have some clue as to what the impacts of WNS may be. These ARE >proactive measures. >best, > Andy > > Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. >700 Billie Brooks Drive >Driftwood, Texas 78619 >(512) 799-1095 >a...@gluesenkamp.com > > > > >________________________________ >From: freddie poer <freddiepoe...@yahoo.com> >To: Andy Gluesenkamp <a...@gluesenkamp.com> >Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com >Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 6:09:54 PM >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] El Malpais > > >Gee, Isn't it going to be hard to conduct these surveys if the caves are >closed? > >Or, does this mean that the caves are closed to everyone except a few hand >picked NPS personnel? This whole knee jerk "close the caves" reaction smells a >little too much like the "nobody should go caving except us" syndrome that I >have seen among certain cavers of the academic persuasion. Bill is obviously >right in that nothing we do will alter what path WNS will take. It will not >matter one whit whether all of us, or none of us, goes caving. WNS will >complete > >it's own cycle. Why aren't we seeing some effort at proactive measures, like >DNA > >preservation or maybe bat sperm and ova collection, instead of the "putting >out >fires" approach we are seeing now? > >--- On Thu, 12/9/10, Andy Gluesenkamp <andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >>From: Andy Gluesenkamp <andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com> >>Subject: Re: [Texascavers] El Malpais >>To: "Mixon Bill" <bmixon...@austin.rr.com>, "Cavers Texas" >><texascavers@texascavers.com> >>Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 2:20 PM >> >> >>Bill, >> Blame the bureaucrats if you must but it sounds like they are taking steps >>to > >>study the situation carefully. The NPS is conducting microbiological and >>other > >>surveys of caves in the area, including those that are not occupied by bats. >>Simply stated: human entry into caves may complicate these studies. >>Stating that "nothing can be done" is giving up to soon. You may be correct >>that nothing can be done to prevent the spread of WNS, with or without cave >>closures. However, documenting bat populations and cave use as well >>as conducting microbiological and other surveys will at least provide >>information about what we may lose (have lost). This documentation is >>valuable, >> >>especially if we are facing the inevitable spread of a catastophic phenomenon >>like WNS. >> >> I view this as analogous to the burning of the Great Library of Alexandria. >> >>Sure, the fire may have been unavoidable (try stopping Julius Ceasar and the >>Roman army) but don't you wish that someone had at least catalogued the >>collection before it was turned to ashes? >> >>Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D. >>700 Billie Brooks Drive >>Driftwood, Texas 78619 >>(512) 799-1095 >>a...@gluesenkamp.com >> >> >> >> >> >________________________________ >From: Mixon Bill <bmixon...@austin.rr.com> >>To: Cavers Texas <texascavers@texascavers.com> >>Sent: Thu, December 9, 2010 2:03:32 PM >>Subject: [Texascavers] El Malpais >> >>No, closing those caves isn't a symptom of greedy biologists, but rather of >>bureaucrats who think they have to be seen doing something, even if there's >>no >>real justification for it. >> >>My solution would be to recognize there's nothing to be done and let things >>play >> >>out, as they will anyway. A whole lot cheaper and less wear and tear on the >>nervous systems, even of bat buffs. -- Mixon >>---------------------------------------- >>All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast. >>---------------------------------------- >>You may "reply" to the address this message >>came from, but for long-term use, save: >>Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu >>AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>Visit our website: http://texascavers.com >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com >>For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
