texascavers Digest 25 Nov 2009 16:13:41 -0000 Issue 894 Topics (messages 12684 through 12706):
updated ICS web-site
12684 by: David
Texas Cavers Memorial web page
12685 by: Ron Miller
12686 by: David
12687 by: Butch Fralia
12688 by: Fritz Holt
Re: Hunters being the hunted in Mexico]
12689 by: Logan McNatt
12690 by: Cristina Estrada
12691 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
12692 by: Fritz Holt
12693 by: Nancy Weaver
12695 by: David
12696 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
12697 by: Nico Escamilla
Anthrodites in Skyline Caverns
12694 by: Sam Young
anthodites
12698 by: Mixon Bill
long sump passed in Spain
12699 by: Mixon Bill
PDF related
12700 by: David
12704 by: Pete Lindsley
12705 by: David
Re: Hunters being the hunted in Mexico
12701 by: Mark Minton
12702 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
TCR photos online - TSA Website
12703 by: Butch Fralia
El Potrero Re: Hunters being the hunted in Mexico
12706 by: Tom Byrd
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--- Begin Message ---The free power-point viewer worked fine, and the slideshow looked great on my 24" monitor. I didn't attend most of the events shown on the slideshow, so it was great seeing what everybody else did. I wished I had seen the big maps, although, I saw the Mammoth map at the Indiana NSS Convention. David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---This is to let you know that my web page has been moved to the TSA web site. http://cavetexas.org/rmiller/ Much thanks to Butch Fralia for setting this up. Ron Miller
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--- Begin Message ---Kudos to Butch and Ron. That was great. Let us all hope that none of us need to be added to the memorial list for another 30 years. I would prefer 60 more years for me. If I only go caving once a year, that would be 60 caves at the most I will see before I croak. So I am either going to have to find a way to live longer, or go caving more often, or both. That means I am going to have to give up french fries. So far, have not been able to kick this deadly addiction. Have any of you tried restricting the salt content in your diet? It is not easy. David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---Cutting back on salt content isn't so hard if you can cut back on canned foods, deli meat and such. I was supposed to go salt free according to one doctor and I found that's almost impossible unless you prepare everything you eat from scratch. I asked again about "salt free" and got the answer to just watch salt content. Keep it at or below 2g/day which is the recommended level for everyone. They typical sodium intake is about 4.4g/day. Walk around the grocery store and look at the sodium/serving content on canned soup and other items. It's spooky! I'm planning on about 60 more years, isn't everyone? Butch From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:48 AM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Memorial web page Kudos to Butch and Ron. That was great. Let us all hope that none of us need to be added to the memorial list for another 30 years. I would prefer 60 more years for me. If I only go caving once a year, that would be 60 caves at the most I will see before I croak. So I am either going to have to find a way to live longer, or go caving more often, or both. That means I am going to have to give up french fries. So far, have not been able to kick this deadly addiction. Have any of you tried restricting the salt content in your diet? It is not easy. David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---At 74, I'll settle for 25. Science had better get busy for most of us. Fritz ________________________________ From: Butch Fralia [mailto:bfra...@maverickgrotto.org] Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 12:25 PM To: 'David'; 'Cavers Texas' Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Memorial web page Cutting back on salt content isn't so hard if you can cut back on canned foods, deli meat and such. I was supposed to go salt free according to one doctor and I found that's almost impossible unless you prepare everything you eat from scratch. I asked again about "salt free" and got the answer to just watch salt content. Keep it at or below 2g/day which is the recommended level for everyone. They typical sodium intake is about 4.4g/day. Walk around the grocery store and look at the sodium/serving content on canned soup and other items. It's spooky! I'm planning on about 60 more years, isn't everyone? Butch From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:48 AM To: Cavers Texas Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Memorial web page Kudos to Butch and Ron. That was great. Let us all hope that none of us need to be added to the memorial list for another 30 years. I would prefer 60 more years for me. If I only go caving once a year, that would be 60 caves at the most I will see before I croak. So I am either going to have to find a way to live longer, or go caving more often, or both. That means I am going to have to give up french fries. So far, have not been able to kick this deadly addiction. Have any of you tried restricting the salt content in your diet? It is not easy. David Locklear
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Thanks to Peter Keyes for this article from the Houston Chronicle.
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--- Begin Message ---They said it is an isolated case, however, I think is good to play safe and be careful when caving in Mexico. I don't know how dangerous is this area (northeast), because my hometown is Hermosillo, (northwest of Mexico). I heard stories about some small towns in my state (Sonora) being controlled by drug dealers, that you need to be a local to get out, but I don't know how truthfully they are.... Cristina Estrada On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Logan McNatt <lmcn...@austin.rr.com>wrote: > Thanks to Peter Keyes for this article from the Houston Chronicle. > > http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6733362.html > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: > texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: > texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
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--- Begin Message ---A good reason for an old dude not to go caving in Mexico. I know, I know, you cave far from the border and it wouldn't happen to a peaceful caving group. But friends, the times they are a changing and desperate people take desperate actions even at the expense of their on livelihood. Fritz ________________________________ From: Logan McNatt [mailto:lmcn...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 11:10 PM To: Texascavers Subject: [Texascavers] [Fwd: Hunters being the hunted in Mexico] Thanks to Peter Keyes for this article from the Houston Chronicle. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6733362.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
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--- Begin Message --- well not having read the article, only the intriguing title - I must say I've always entertained a Gary Larson like picture of doves, javelinas, deer, elk, moose, buffalo, squirrels etc armed with high velocity rifles.
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--- Begin Message ---This is related to the previous post, but has nothing to do with caving, or Texas. I stopped by one of these lodges about 8 years ago, in the off season, to see if there were any good deals for staying over-night. ( I didn't want to stay in a road-side motel on the way back north to San Fernando. ) The lodge was very plain and very expensive. I didn't see any reason to stay at the one I visited, unless you were a rich hunter. My wife and mother-in-law have a place in Reynosa, which is supposedly one of the areas the Zeta's control. They both will not travel at night in this town. They seem to think the problem has become worse recently. Here is a news story from Matamoros from just last week: http://www.elmananarey.com/diario/noticia/nacional/noticias/balacera:_mueren_militar_y_conductor/555276 It says that a military official was shot to death after he stopped a suspicious vehicle. Soldiers returned fire shooting the car at least 20 times, with 7 bullets hitting the driver in the chest. Guns are illegal in Mexico.
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--- Begin Message ---Note: Some firearms are legal in Mexico.. LikeTitle Two of the Federal Law of Firearms allows possession and carrying of handguns in a calibers of .380 or less, although some calibers are excluded, most notably .357 magnum and 9mm parabellum.
Members of agricultural collectives and other rural workers are allowed to carry the aforesaid handguns, .22 rifles, and shotguns, as long as they stay outside of urban areas, and obtain a license.
Nov 24, 2009 10:46:11 AM, dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote:This is related to the previous post, but has nothing todo with caving, or Texas.I stopped by one of these lodges about 8 years ago, inthe off season, to see if there were any good deals forstaying over-night. ( I didn't want to stay in a road-sidemotel on the way back north to San Fernando. )The lodge was very plain and very expensive.I didn't see any reason to stay at the one I visited, unless you were a rich hunter.My wife and mother-in-law have a place in Reynosa, which is supposedly one of the areas the Zeta's control.They both will not travel at night in this town. Theyseem to think the problem has become worse recently.Here is a news story from Matamoros from just last week:It says that a military official was shot to death after he stopped a suspicious vehicle. Soldiersreturned fire shooting the car at least 20 times, with 7 bullets hitting the driver in the chest.Guns are illegal in Mexico.
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--- Begin Message ---You're also allowed to transport your firearms and up to 100 rounds of ammo per gun which must be unloaded and stripped of the magazine during transport, provided you belong to a hunting club, have a hunting license and tags, and a permit from SEDENA (National Defense) Nico On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM, <tbsam...@verizon.net> wrote: > Note: Some firearms are legal in Mexico.. Like > > > *Title Two of the Federal Law of Firearms allows possession and carrying > of handguns in a calibers of .380 or less, although some calibers are > excluded, most notably .357 magnum and 9mm parabellum.* > > *Members of agricultural collectives and other rural workers are allowed > to carry the aforesaid handguns, .22 rifles, and shotguns, as long as they > stay outside of urban areas, and obtain a license.* > > > > Nov 24, 2009 10:46:11 AM, dlocklea...@gmail.com wrote: > > This is related to the previous post, but has nothing to > do with caving, or Texas. > > > I stopped by one of these lodges about 8 years ago, in > the off season, to see if there were any good deals for > staying over-night. ( I didn't want to stay in a road-side > motel on the way back north to San Fernando. ) > > The lodge was very plain and very expensive. > I didn't see any reason to stay at the one I visited, unless you were a > rich hunter. > > My wife and mother-in-law have a place in Reynosa, which is supposedly one > of the areas the Zeta's control. > > They both will not travel at night in this town. They > seem to think the problem has become worse recently. > > Here is a news story from Matamoros from just last week: > > > http://www.elmananarey.com/diario/noticia/nacional/noticias/balacera:_mueren_militar_y_conductor/555276 > > It says that a military official was shot to death after he stopped a > suspicious vehicle. Soldiers > returned fire shooting the car at least 20 times, with 7 bullets hitting > the driver in the chest. > > Guns are illegal in Mexico. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit > our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: > texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: > texascavers-h...@texascavers.com >
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--- Begin Message ---Earth Science Picture of the Day will be interesting to some of you. ....... Sam http://epod.usra.edu/
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--- Begin Message --- Re that photo of anthodites: Skyline Caverns is the "type locality" of anthodites, the word having first been applied to the formations pictured. Anthodite is sort of a vague term. Some purists (like Donald Davis) apply it only to clusters of snakelike helictites, such as those barely to the left of center in the picture. Others apply the term to the sort of "frostwork," often aragonite, just to the right of center. From the photo, given that it contains the type specimen, either usage would appear to be correct. The lesson may be the futility of trying to define terms for things that in fact have a continuous spectrum of forms in nature (unlike most biological species). For example, with typical pedantry, "Cave Minerals of the World" tries to distinguish gypsum hair, gypsum cotton, gypsum rope, gypsum snow, gypsum needles, gypsum spiders, and gypsum flowers, which are all just variations on selenite's long, thin crystals.--Mixon ---------------------------------------- Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them more. ---------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
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--- Begin Message --- According to reports in number 173 of the Cave Diving Group Newsletter, British cave divers Jason Mallinson and Rick Stanton succeeded in passing Sump 2 in Pozo Azul, Burgos, Spain, the culmination of a multi-year project involving numerous British and Spanish assistants. Just reaching the start of Sump 2 requires a 250- meter walk to the cave entrance, diving 700-meter Sump 1, a 300-meter swim, and 100 meters of walking. As a result, camping between the sumps has been used to enable the divers to get a fresher start in Sump 2. Work in Sump 2, which reaches a maximum depth of 68 meters, involved multiple scooters, rebreathers, and underwater habitats for decompression. The ascent back toward the surface at the end of the sump is paced by monitoring decompression obligation on dive computers. The sump was finally passed on July 24, 2009, by Rick Stanton, 140 meters beyond the end of Mallinson's line, at a total length of 5160 meters. The dry passage ran only about 20 meters to new Sump 3, dived for 160 meters by Stanton before he turned back. Reaching the present end of Pozo Azul requires 6020 meters of diving. "Future trips will concentrate on camping beyond Sump 2 and making multiple pushes into Sump 3." Hardcore. -- Mixon---------------------------------------- Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them more. ---------------------------------------- You may "reply" to the address this message came from, but for long-term use, save: Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
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--- Begin Message ---The latest Kindle electronic reader, supposedly now supports PDF viewing. Does that mean that you could sit somewhere in a wi-fi place and read on-line caving newsletters on it ? Wouldn't it work better with 3G or 4G service ? That way you could read it anywhere within cell signal range. David Locklear
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--- Begin Message --- David, what it may mean is that you can now read ANY pdf on it - you don't have to generate the pdf via Amazon. But it is still in B&W! You'll see some color copy-cats in the next few months I bet.- Pete On Nov 24, 2009, at 1:04 PM, David wrote:The latest Kindle electronic reader, supposedly now supports PDF viewing.Does that mean that you could sit somewhere in a wi-fi place and read on-line caving newsletters on it ?Wouldn't it work better with 3G or 4G service ? That way you could readit anywhere within cell signal range. David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---I was a year behind on the news of the electronic readers. The 4 most popular ones are all using cell service now. Here is one that might be good for reading caving newsletters: http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/kindle/nell/photos/hero-top-right-05._V244132736_.jpg Pete was right. More are on the way and in color: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/gadgetlab/2009/09/asuseeereader-300x244.jpg I have seen cave maps in PDF. A wide-screen e-reader might work better for that. David Locklear
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--- Begin Message ---David Locklear said:>I stopped by one of these lodges about 8 years ago, in the off season, to see if there were any good deals for staying over-night. ( I didn't want to stay in a road-side motel on the way back north to San Fernando. )>The lodge was very plain and very expensive.>I didn't see any reason to stay at the one I visited, unless you were a rich hunter.Not all of those hunting lodges are plain, although I suspect all are indeed expensive. Many years ago we visited one called Paloma Blanca south of Sabinas Hidalgo. It was like a classic Mexican Hacienda. The owner was an American who also owned land near El Potrero (south of Bustamante) with caves and mines on it, which Brian Burton had learned of. We stopped at the lodge to ask permission to explore his caves. I don't know how much it cost to stay there, but the owner was incredibly gracious, inviting us in for margaritas and giving us free reign at his place in Potrero, including use of the fancy house there. We only went to Potrero a couple of times but still had some good leads. Unfortunately Paloma Blanca closed down and we lost track of the owner. Potrero would be a good place to go back to.Mark Minton You may reply to mmin...@caver.netPermanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
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--- Begin Message ---The Explorer Post in San Antonio I joined so I could cave (Post 9 Agudas Achim Synagogue) went to Potrero in 1964, before I joined. In 1965.. Stuart Isgur may have been there. (Or so I seem to recall.)David Locklear said:
>I stopped by one of these lodges about 8 years ago, in the off
season, to see if there were any good deals for staying
over-night. ( I didn't want to stay in a road-side motel on the way
back north to San Fernando. )
>The lodge was very plain and very expensive.
>I didn't see any reason to stay at the one I visited, unless you
were a rich hunter.
Not all of those hunting lodges are plain, although I
suspect all are indeed expensive. Many years ago we visited one
called Paloma Blanca south of Sabinas Hidalgo. It was like a classic
Mexican Hacienda. The owner was an American who also owned land near
El Potrero (south of Bustamante) with caves and mines on it, which
Brian Burton had learned of. We stopped at the lodge to ask
permission to explore his caves. I don't know how much it cost to
stay there, but the owner was incredibly gracious, inviting us in for
margaritas and giving us free reign at his place in Potrero,
including use of the fancy house there. We only went to Potrero a
couple of times but still had some good leads. Unfortunately Paloma
Blanca closed down and we lost track of the owner. Potrero would be
a good place to go back to.
Mark Minton
You may reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
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--- Begin Message ---I know that folks have been posting TCR photos all over the place on Flickr and Facebook. However, in keeping with tradition, I've been slowly but surely getting photographs posted on the TSA website as well. Thanks to Mark Alman and David Ochel for the photos they've made available. If anyone else would like to contribute, please contact me off list so we can figure out how to get them to me. I didn't get captions for the photos so if you have suggestions, please send them. They'd be appreciated. There are 75 photos up now with more on the way. You can see them at: http://cavetexas.org/photos/TCR2009/index.php Regards, Butch Fralia Healing Webmaster
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--- Begin Message ---Mark Minton mentions El Potrero... ... which had been open and closed to access at one time or another. In 1980 I went with a group (Justin Speleological Society) out of Ft Worth including Bob Lloyd and Katherine McClure to hike up to the western ridge. It was a beautiful, forested place with lots of cave leads, little pits (some strongly blowing air) and some caves modified as mine adits with limited sources of water. It's the same mountain range as at Bustamante but the anticline is breached (down through the Mesozoic section to Permian strata) and an interior valley runs parallel to the range. It's a neat place. At the time, locals from El Alamo hunted up there. 'Hope it's okay these days. T Byrd -----Original Message----- From: Mark Minton [mailto:mmin...@caver.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:31 PM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Hunters being the hunted in Mexico David Locklear said: >I stopped by one of these lodges about 8 years ago, in the off season, to see if there were any good deals for staying over-night. ( I didn't want to stay in a road-side motel on the way back north to San Fernando. ) >The lodge was very plain and very expensive. >I didn't see any reason to stay at the one I visited, unless you were a rich hunter. Not all of those hunting lodges are plain, although I suspect all are indeed expensive. Many years ago we visited one called Paloma Blanca south of Sabinas Hidalgo. It was like a classic Mexican Hacienda. The owner was an American who also owned land near El Potrero (south of Bustamante) with caves and mines on it, which Brian Burton had learned of. We stopped at the lodge to ask permission to explore his caves. I don't know how much it cost to stay there, but the owner was incredibly gracious, inviting us in for margaritas and giving us free reign at his place in Potrero, including use of the fancy house there. We only went to Potrero a couple of times but still had some good leads. Unfortunately Paloma Blanca closed down and we lost track of the owner. Potrero would be a good place to go back to. Mark Minton You may reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
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