texascavers Digest 4 Dec 2008 21:42:03 -0000 Issue 658
Topics (messages 9556 through 9564):
Re: cave restoration
9556 by: Ron Ralph
Longhorn Cavern Project, Saturday, December 6th - Cancelled!
9557 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
Help Needed at CBSP Saturday, January 17th
9558 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
Re: Limes
9559 by: Johnson, Russ (ATX)
Re: Cave potential in The Solitario
9560 by: Fritz Holt
Punkin Cave trip report addition/correction
9561 by: Jim Kennedy
Philosophical question
9562 by: Geary Schindel
9563 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
9564 by: Fritz Holt
Administrivia:
To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
<texascavers-digest-subscr...@texascavers.com>
To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
<texascavers-digest-unsubscr...@texascavers.com>
To post to the list, e-mail:
<texascavers@texascavers.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Begin Message ---
I am holding in my hands about 6 pounds of Cave Conservation and
Restoration, the 2006 Edition, edited by Val Hildreth-Werker and Jim C.
Werker and published by the National Speleological Society. It is 600 pages
thick and may be purchased on-line from the NSS bookstore
<http://nssbookstore.org/index.php?mode=store&submode=search&searchfor=hildr
eth-werker&action=search>
http://nssbookstore.org/index.php?mode=store&submode=search&searchfor=hildre
th-werker&action=search
for $39.00 plus shipping and handling. Makes a great Christmas present and
is sprinkled throughout with photos of Texas cavers. Part 3 Restoration
begins on page 293. I will be glad to loan-out my copy for a quick look-see
should the need arise.
Ron
_____
From: Jules Jenkins [mailto:julesje...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:44 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] re: cave restoration
I have a request from a UT-Austin geology professor for information about
cave restoration - how to do a cave restoration. I'd appreciate any info.
websites, articles, etc. that I can forward on to this professor.
Specifically, looking for proper methods for lint removal, cleaning
flowstone and other formations, repairing broken speleothems.
please contact me off list.
thanks,
julie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Longhorn project will be taking a holiday vacation until February, 2009.
With all of the finals going on at UT, A & M, etc. the response was very low
and I felt that we wouldn't be able
to conduct the work we need to do (and a thru trip) in a safe and productive
manner.
Some folks suggested moving the weekend, but, I didn't want to conflict with
the long-established CBSP, which
is always held the second weekend of each month.
Thanks to those few that did say they could make it. Keep your stuff packed up
and go help Jim a.k.a. "Crash" next
weekend at CBSP.
With Jim's approval, maybe y'all can conduct some experiments on the
effectiveness of lime deodarant in relation
to physcial exetrtion.
Enjoy!
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you up for a weekend of caving, being fed lunch and dinner (For Free?!),
absolutely no work,
deluxe accomodations at the Conference Center, and a chance to hang out with
some fun, enthusiastic, energetic kids?
I thought you would be!
The Girl Scouts of the Austin/SA area are once again having their large Council
wide campout at CBSP and are looking
for guides to escort the girls and their parents thru a few caves at CBSP
Saturday, January 17th.
We have helped with this the last two years and it has been a lot of fun!
Last year, we visited Turtle Shell, Cicurrina, and Gorman Caves and were fed
exceptionally well by the Scouts.
If you'd like to help out and generate interest and attract some future Texas
cavers, please contact me offline.
I'll even bring the limes and you can apply them to your armpits or, in my
case, I'll be applying them to my cervesas
Saturday night at the Conference Center.
Thanks and hope to hear from y'all!
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>I'll even bring the limes and you can apply them to your armpits or,
>in my case, I'll be applying them to my cervesas Saturday night
Whoa there, for a moment I thought you wrote 'crevices'...
Russ
Llano
COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL: This e-mail and attachments may contain information which
is company confidential and proprietary. Disclosure or use of any such
information without the written permission of Weston Solutions, Inc. is
strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the
sender by return e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank You.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many others like myself who love the outdoors, echo our gratitude. Thanks,
Dwight.
Geezer
________________________________
From: Matt Turner [mailto:kat...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 5:29 PM
To: dirt...@comcast.net
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Cave potential in The Solitario
Wow, that's some really interesting information. Has there ever been another
attempt to get something like that going again/would there even be a need?
Sounds like I owe you a million thanks as many of the parks you mentioned
greatly influenced my love of nature, and I've spent many many hours in them as
a child and an adult.
Matt Turner
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it." - Aristotle
"Empty pockets never held anyone back.Only empty heads and empty hearts can do
that."- Norman Vincent Peale
________________________________
From: "dirt...@comcast.net" <dirt...@comcast.net>
To: Bill Bentley <ca...@caver.net>; Matt Turner <kat...@yahoo.com>;
texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:48:42 PM
Subject: [Texascavers] Cave potential in The Solitario
I have spent 8 or 9 months (literally - over about 17 years) in The Solitario
and Big Bend Ranch in the 70's running the field programs for the Texas Natural
Areas Survey (NAS) (those reports formed the scientific justification for the
acquisition of the land from Mr. Anderson), using it as a field location from
1967 on for numerous university geology programs, and for field trips for the
Houston Geological Society and the American Association of Petrolium
Geologists. I have walked essentially all of The Solitario and Fresno Canyon
several times and the most likely places for caves many times. No Luck as far
as real caves are concerned, although there are many shelters and
archaeological sites. Tom Meador also gave it a good shot, with the same
result.
Some surprise could always show up as I did not crawl over every inch (The
Solitario is huge and is 7 miles across, essentially filling an entire USGS
7.5-minute quad), but it has been pretty carefully looked at by some really
experienced cavers. Ridge-walking in the Guads has shown us that you can walk
within a few feet of a significant cave and not know it. The best geological
settings in The Solitario and Fesno Canyon for caves, however, are not
encouraging.
It is remote, geologically fascinating, and wonderful country. I suggest you
visit if you can and try to find something that we did not see. I am so
pleased that the NAS field work that I lead for those 6 years resulted in the
acquisition of Big Bend Ranch as a Texas State Park. At the time we were doing
the work, we were definitely not sure if we were doing something meaningful or
just pissing in the wind. If you are into scenery and secret waterholes and
not caves, the west side of Fresno Canyon is even more wonderful.
By the way, other public acquisitions that resulted directly or indirectly from
the Texas NAS scientific studies included the Lower Canyons of the Rio Grande,
Mt Livermore, Enchanted Rock (Ernst Kastening did the geology), Rosillos Mts,
Elephant Mountain, Devil's Stinkhole (I hired Ronnie Fieseler and other Texas
cavers to help out on that one and some others). There is at least one other
special parcel that has only recently been acquired but is being kept quiet as
ingress and egress is being negotiated. Other studies included the Franklin
Mts, Hueco Mts, Matagordo Island, the Breaks of the Canadian River, Capote
Falls, and the Blue Elbow Swamp on the Lousiana border. There are some other
Wildlife Management and other areas that also have benefited.
DirtDoc
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bill Bentley" <ca...@caver.net>
Matt (Turner),
I was there in September 2007 with a group of hikers for a weekend.... I
didn't see anything that looked like a cave or even cave like... We hiked in
some of the canyons and they look a lot like the ones in Big Bend National
Park, only not as tall... It is pretty remote and if I remember we hiked about
13 to 14 miles round trip...
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was writing the trip report by going through the actual survey notes,
and TOTALLY forgot that we had another team in the cave! My apologies
to them, I didn't intend to slight them. Please add the following team
to the report, and change Team Deep Cave to Team six (instead of five).
-- Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Team five: "Team Photography"
Allan Cobb led Ann Scott and Alex Benavente on a photo-documentation
tour of Punkin Cave. Specifically, they were photographing the unique
geologic features of the cave to help illustrate its hypogenic origins.
Rims and vents, lift tubes, air-flow corrosion, wall crusts, and more
were photographed, starting in the southern section of the cave around
the Mortuary Room and through the connection passages to the Entrance
Room. A presentation is being planned for the ICS next summer. Much
more photo documentation remains.
Confidentiality Note: This email and any attachment to it are
confidential and protected by law and intended for the use of the
individual(s) or entity named on the email. If the reader of this
message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination or distribution of this communication is prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
via return email and delete it completely from your email system. If you
have printed a copy of the email, please destroy it immediately. Thank
you
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep
slopes with any sizeable population present to create a situation where
there might be a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an
avalanche. Colorado and Wyoming are different stories as there are
serious safety issues with avalanches each year.
There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock
falls in Texas. One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park
where you can see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred
on the cliff near Dog Canyon, north of the park headquarters. However,
Yosemite is probably better known for having large pieces of rock break
off and fall and occasionally squash people.
If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may
have a land slide. I would assume that there have been a number of
landslides or slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this
might be an issue. I would assume that it is a fairly unusual
geohazard. However, California is famous for their landslides and mud
slides.
However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most
probably in Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps). During
the last mapping trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that
contained a fair amount of bat guano at an angle which could results in
mass movement of the material. Actually, the material probably reached
the lower levels of the cave by slumping as there were no active or old
bat roosts directly above the material. Our group was having a
philosophical discussion on this issue. So, if you had a mountain of
guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche?
G
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pretty good, Geary!
Maybe Webster's will add this brand new word.
Thanks for the chuckle!
Mark
________________________________
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:34 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
So, if you had a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a
crapalanche?
G
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's getting deep in here. But then, at some point we all have time on our
hands, for which we don't need gloves.
Fritz
________________________________
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:34 PM
To: Texas Cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Philosophical question
In Texas, it has been pretty rare to obtain any sizable snows on steep slopes
with any sizeable population present to create a situation where there might be
a mass movement of snow which would be defined as an avalanche. Colorado and
Wyoming are different stories as there are serious safety issues with
avalanches each year.
There are a number of areas where there is sufficient cliffs for rock falls in
Texas. One of the better examples is at Big Bend National Park where you can
see the fresh rock face from the rock fall that occurred on the cliff near Dog
Canyon, north of the park headquarters. However, Yosemite is probably better
known for having large pieces of rock break off and fall and occasionally
squash people.
If you have sufficient amounts of soil, trees, rock, and water, you may have a
land slide. I would assume that there have been a number of landslides or
slope failures on steep slopes in west Texas and this might be an issue. I
would assume that it is a fairly unusual geohazard. However, California is
famous for their landslides and mud slides.
However, there is one geological hazards which I believe is most probably in
Texas (with the exception of the US Capitol steps). During the last mapping
trip in Punkin Cave, we were in some vents that contained a fair amount of bat
guano at an angle which could results in mass movement of the material.
Actually, the material probably reached the lower levels of the cave by
slumping as there were no active or old bat roosts directly above the material.
Our group was having a philosophical discussion on this issue. So, if you had
a mountain of guano fall on you, would it be a crapalanche?
G
--- End Message ---
