OOPS, I messed up on that last email. I ment to say. To all of you
booze hounds out there. I don't like paying more for conventions that
use more of something that I do not use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel that if
you want booze at the convention you should pay for it!
Marion Vittetoe said that.
In a message dated 6/11/2017 4:26:49 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
rckee...@cox.net writes:
Wm,
I am ashamed of you by trying to change the topic to “we’re so
poor”. *This is a Convention budgeting issue, not an NSS dictating
issue … and especially after the BOG voted at the March meeting
that NSS Conventions must budget for a profit.*
The people at the Conventions are the movers and shakers of the
NSS. These are the very people who have made caves and the NSS
their lives. These are the people, who, after donating hundreds
of hours each year, and many, many dollars, want to enjoy talking
with their friends.
Everyone. Let’s make this clearer. The NSS is not poor and this
is our national Convention. Go to the just published
Secretary-Treasurer report at
https://caves.org/nss-business/reports/1706/S-T-1706.pdf Go to
*Attachment A* which has all of the National Speleological
Foundation (NSF) funds.
*We have an Account Balance with the NSF of **$3,157,393.52**(as
of 3/31/2017)*. That’s up $63,000 dollars over 3/2016, and this
is *after* $80,000 was taken out of the NSS Endowment Fund.
The first time I ever heard of law enforcement being called for a
fight at a Convention was 2011. To bring this up as a reason is
truly offensive.
The main point is mandating to Convention staffs is yet another
reason why our NSS membership is going down. Caving and
Conventions were fun when we started caving.
A BOG member needs to *amend the motion to remove the sentence*
“*No other alcoholic beverages will be provided.*“ A non-second
to the motion would be better.
I am not on the Texas Cavers list. Could someone please forward
this response to them?
Thanks,
Ray Keeler
rckee...@cox.net <mailto:rckee...@cox.net>
623-523-1760
*From:*nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com?>]
*Sent:* Sunday, June 11, 2017 12:53 PM
*To:* nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com>;
texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com>
*Subject:* RE: [NSSwest] BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO
Ray, Ernie, & everyone (including Texas Cavers, since I see RD
forwarded it there),
Ernie is correct – the beer budget alone would have been enough to
put several conventions in the black (instead of the red). That
said, I’m not opposed to beer (even though I don’t drink it myself).
The questions are:
-When is it “enough”? Should we just 30-35 kegs (more than OTR
purchases, and that is designated a “party event”, yet what was
being budgeted for in an upcoming convention) and have it every
night? I believe most would say “no, a couple of nights is more
than sufficient”.
-When a fight breaks out, and it has several times (to the point
of the police being called), are we responsible since we served
it? Different laws in different states/municipalities/campuses
make this a nightmare to avoid.
-The main point I have below is not that the NSS wants to ban beer
(we don’t), but that we will limit it to the alcoholic beverages
listed. There is a trend coming that wants to serve “hard liquor”,
and the entire EC of the NSS is opposed to this. Just as we don’t
object to the NSS buying beer & wine, we do object when it comes
down to liquor with much higher alcohol content. I’ll buy my own,
thank you.
-The cost of beer alone in a proposed Convention budget is $7,510.
This does not include wine at the NSS Awards Banquet, which is
another $2,475, for a total of $9,985. This amount has easily
broken Convention’s budgets all by itself. Part of 2018’s “cost
savings” is a proposed $200 pre-reg ($250 at the door)
registration, and if you want a guidebook that’s extra.
So yes, buy extra and truck around the leftovers the next day and
fill everyone’s pitchers – that’s a really great way to continue
to bleed your Society in a form we can’t control. If we don’t set
a limit, each new Convention points out the (often large) holes we
have in how to host a convention.
I would hope that everyone will instead encourage the Directors to
be fiscally responsible for the Society, and to do the right thing
by voting “for”. Everything in moderation, even caving.
Wm Shrewsbury
President, for another week
National Speleological Society
*From:*nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com?>]
*Sent:* Sunday, June 11, 2017 2:45 PM
*To:* nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com>
*Subject:* [NSSwest] BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO
*Ray, et al,
I don't believe Wm is trying to change your way of drinking, but
to use funding more wisely. When more funding is used for
alcoholic purposes to get folks drinking from the time they wake
up to the time they fall into their tent at night, is becoming an
ongoing thing, yes, yes and we've all seen it recently. Ha! When
you look at the financial picture of putting on a convention, the
teeter-totter seems to be swayed by the beer expenses. As for the
New Member/Fellows gathering that is a simple thing to deal with
and should be a separate issue IMHO. On top of these thoughts, of
late, its the campsites that get all this extra economy--Ha!--and
those of us who put off camping lately, that's our problem, but
lowering the cost of registration could be a major part of this
issue, you think?
Ernie Coffman, 8316LF*
Hello NSS West,
You need to know about this. On the Monday Morning BOG agenda
they will vote on the motion below.
Please talk to your Directors and Officers before the Monday
morning vote and *request that each BOG member votes “NO!” on
Agenda Item 6.*
*Please forward this to other list serves. You can contact your
Directors and Officers even if you are not going to the 2017
Convention.*
*Let your leaders hear from you directly!**
**e...@caves.org <mailto:e...@caves.org>**+**direct...@caves.org
<mailto:direct...@caves.org>**=**b...@caves.org <mailto:b...@caves.org>*
… and yes, there are several BOG members on the NSS West list. If
you reply to this list, several will see your reply.
Agenda Item 6 “Convention Beverages” is about restricting when
alcoholic beverages can be served during the Conventions. You are
the representatives of the membership. You are my representative.
Please vote “*NO*” on agenda item 6.
This motion is another unnecessary burden to future Convention
committees. It is another unnecessary, and unwanted requirement.
The motion is below. The “Note:” below the motion will not be
included in the Acts of the Board. It is only there to sway your
vote.
Minimally, I am asking you, my Directors, to *amend* the motion to
*remove the sentence* “*No other alcoholic beverages will be
provided.*”
*Example*: There was a Convention (I was there) where not all of
the beer was consumed at the previous night’s gathering. The
following day the remaining beer kegs were trailered through the
campground and pitchers were used to fill campers’ containers. It
was a memorable and unexpected perk that was very much
appreciated. If this motion passes, enjoyable, spontaneous events
cannot happen.
6) *Convention Beverages*
Shrewsbury moves: The annual NSS Convention is permitted, once
legal permits and permission has been obtained for that area, to
serve beer at the Howdy Party and the Campground party.
Additionally, wine may be served at the Fellows/New Members
reception, Auction night, and the NSS Awards Banquet. *No other
alcoholic beverages will be provided.* Adequate alternatives, such
as soft drinks, tea, and water will also be provided at these events.
Note: While the Board has discussed this on a prior occasion,
other than voting down the “no alcohol at all” motion on the floor
at that time, the Board has not codified what is acceptable. This
motion is not designed to set a new precedent, but to codify our
understanding of the Board’s decision.
Thank you,
Ray Keeler
NSS 23245
Current Arizona Region President
Former NSS EVP, AVP, and Director
.
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