Well worded, Phyllis! It seems to me that buying beer (or wine) for an event can be a tricky planning problem (kind of like how many spaghetti noodles to cook!). I know often the Howdy Party beverages can be overestimated but they are still paid for. You can’t send it back. For heaven’s sake, let the participants indulge a little the next evening or whenever, as long as state and local ordinances are complied with. Hard liquor is more expensive and also harder to estimate how much to buy since there is such a wide range of products. It also takes a different liquor license. Let people buy their own hard liquor. I don’t recall it ever being provided at Convention, but I haven’t been to all of them.
I do remember one time when supplies of beer and soda ran out very early on during a Howdy Party, making everyone wonder who the hell had screwed up on planning. There should be ample amounts of soda and water available as well as beer. I have never been a fan of wine, but if it is served, let’s maybe save it for the banquet and keep the quantities limited (people need to be able to drive the next morning, after all). Carol Belski > On Jun 12, 2017, at 1:46 PM, Phyllis Boneau <pjb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > From Wm's reply I conclude the concern is more about hard liquor. If that is > the question, the motion should come right out and say no supplying hard > liquor instead of pussyfooting around about WHEN exactly alcoholic beverages > can be served instead of WHAT alcoholic beverages can be served. > (I dislike beer and find a great lack of "coke" at convention gatherings.) > > Did I miss a point here? > > Phyllis Boneau > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 9:16 PM, Lee H. Skinner <skin...@thuntek.net > <mailto:skin...@thuntek.net>> wrote: > All, > > > I see no problem with people bringing their own beer to the convention, and > if it saves the NSS over $7500, I think that's all the better. Thanks, > William, for your reasonable explanation. > > Lee Skinner > > > On 6/11/2017 8:48 PM, mcvittetoe via Southwestern Cavers of the National > Speleological Society wrote: >> OOPS, I messed up on that last email. I ment to say. To all of you booze >> hounds out there. I don't like paying more for conventions that use more of >> something that I do not use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel that if you want booze at >> the convention you should pay for it! >> >> Marion Vittetoe said that. >> >> In a message dated 6/11/2017 4:26:49 PM US Mountain Standard Time, >> rckee...@cox.net <mailto:rckee...@cox.net> writes: >> >> Wm, >> >> >> I am ashamed of you by trying to change the topic to “we’re so poor”. This >> is a Convention budgeting issue, not an NSS dictating issue … and >> especially after the BOG voted at the March meeting that NSS Conventions >> must budget for a profit. >> >> >> The people at the Conventions are the movers and shakers of the NSS. These >> are the very people who have made caves and the NSS their lives. These are >> the people, who, after donating hundreds of hours each year, and many, many >> dollars, want to enjoy talking with their friends. >> >> >> Everyone. Let’s make this clearer. The NSS is not poor and this is our >> national Convention. Go to the just published Secretary-Treasurer report at >> https://caves.org/nss-business/reports/1706/S-T-1706.pdf >> <https://caves.org/nss-business/reports/1706/S-T-1706.pdf> Go to Attachment >> A which has all of the National Speleological Foundation (NSF) funds. >> >> We have an Account Balance with the NSF of $3,157,393.52 (as of 3/31/2017). >> That’s up $63,000 dollars over 3/2016, and this is after $80,000 was taken >> out of the NSS Endowment Fund. >> >> >> The first time I ever heard of law enforcement being called for a fight at a >> Convention was 2011. To bring this up as a reason is truly offensive. >> >> >> The main point is mandating to Convention staffs is yet another reason why >> our NSS membership is going down. Caving and Conventions were fun when we >> started caving. >> >> A BOG member needs to amend the motion to remove the sentence “No other >> alcoholic beverages will be provided.“ A non-second to the motion would be >> better. >> >> >> I am not on the Texas Cavers list. Could someone please forward this >> response to them? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> Ray Keeler >> >> rckee...@cox.net <mailto:rckee...@cox.net> >> 623-523-1760 <tel:(623)%20523-1760> >> >> From: nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com?>] >> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 12:53 PM >> To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com>; >> texascavers@texascavers.com <mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com> >> Subject: RE: [NSSwest] BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO >> >> >> >> Ray, Ernie, & everyone (including Texas Cavers, since I see RD forwarded it >> there), >> >> >> Ernie is correct – the beer budget alone would have been enough to put >> several conventions in the black (instead of the red). That said, I’m not >> opposed to beer (even though I don’t drink it myself). >> >> >> The questions are: >> >> - When is it “enough”? Should we just 30-35 kegs (more than OTR >> purchases, and that is designated a “party event”, yet what was being >> budgeted for in an upcoming convention) and have it every night? I believe >> most would say “no, a couple of nights is more than sufficient”. >> - When a fight breaks out, and it has several times (to the point >> of the police being called), are we responsible since we served it? >> Different laws in different states/municipalities/campuses make this a >> nightmare to avoid. >> - The main point I have below is not that the NSS wants to ban beer >> (we don’t), but that we will limit it to the alcoholic beverages listed. >> There is a trend coming that wants to serve “hard liquor”, and the entire EC >> of the NSS is opposed to this. Just as we don’t object to the NSS buying >> beer & wine, we do object when it comes down to liquor with much higher >> alcohol content. I’ll buy my own, thank you. >> - The cost of beer alone in a proposed Convention budget is $7,510. >> This does not include wine at the NSS Awards Banquet, which is another >> $2,475, for a total of $9,985. This amount has easily broken Convention’s >> budgets all by itself. Part of 2018’s “cost savings” is a proposed $200 >> pre-reg ($250 at the door) registration, and if you want a guidebook that’s >> extra. >> >> So yes, buy extra and truck around the leftovers the next day and fill >> everyone’s pitchers – that’s a really great way to continue to bleed your >> Society in a form we can’t control. If we don’t set a limit, each new >> Convention points out the (often large) holes we have in how to host a >> convention. >> >> >> I would hope that everyone will instead encourage the Directors to be >> fiscally responsible for the Society, and to do the right thing by voting >> “for”. Everything in moderation, even caving. >> >> >> Wm Shrewsbury >> >> President, for another week >> >> National Speleological Society >> >> >> From: nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com> >> [mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com?>] >> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 2:45 PM >> To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:nssw...@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: [NSSwest] BOG Agenda Item 6-Tell your BOG to Vote NO >> >> >> >> >> Ray, et al, >> >> I don't believe Wm is trying to change your way of drinking, but to use >> funding more wisely. When more funding is used for alcoholic purposes to get >> folks drinking from the time they wake up to the time they fall into their >> tent at night, is becoming an ongoing thing, yes, yes and we've all seen it >> recently. Ha! When you look at the financial picture of putting on a >> convention, the teeter-totter seems to be swayed by the beer expenses. As >> for the New Member/Fellows gathering that is a simple thing to deal with and >> should be a separate issue IMHO. On top of these thoughts, of late, its the >> campsites that get all this extra economy--Ha!--and those of us who put off >> camping lately, that's our problem, but lowering the cost of registration >> could be a major part of this issue, you think? >> >> Ernie Coffman, 8316LF >> >> >> Hello NSS West, >> >> >> You need to know about this. On the Monday Morning BOG agenda they will >> vote on the motion below. >> >> Please talk to your Directors and Officers before the Monday morning vote >> and request that each BOG member votes “NO!” on Agenda Item 6. >> >> Please forward this to other list serves. You can contact your Directors >> and Officers even if you are not going to the 2017 Convention. >> >> Let your leaders hear from you directly! >> e...@caves.org <mailto:e...@caves.org>+direct...@caves.org >> <mailto:direct...@caves.org>=b...@caves.org <mailto:b...@caves.org> >> … and yes, there are several BOG members on the NSS West list. If you reply >> to this list, several will see your reply. >> >> >> Agenda Item 6 “Convention Beverages” is about restricting when alcoholic >> beverages can be served during the Conventions. You are the representatives >> of the membership. You are my representative. Please vote “NO” on agenda >> item 6. >> >> This motion is another unnecessary burden to future Convention committees. >> It is another unnecessary, and unwanted requirement. >> >> The motion is below. The “Note:” below the motion will not be included in >> the Acts of the Board. It is only there to sway your vote. >> >> Minimally, I am asking you, my Directors, to amend the motion to remove the >> sentence “No other alcoholic beverages will be provided.” >> >> Example: There was a Convention (I was there) where not all of the beer was >> consumed at the previous night’s gathering. The following day the remaining >> beer kegs were trailered through the campground and pitchers were used to >> fill campers’ containers. It was a memorable and unexpected perk that was >> very much appreciated. If this motion passes, enjoyable, spontaneous events >> cannot happen. >> >> >> 6) Convention Beverages >> >> Shrewsbury moves: The annual NSS Convention is permitted, once legal permits >> and permission has been obtained for that area, to serve beer at the Howdy >> Party and the Campground party. Additionally, wine may be served at the >> Fellows/New Members reception, Auction night, and the NSS Awards Banquet. No >> other alcoholic beverages will be provided. Adequate alternatives, such as >> soft drinks, tea, and water will also be provided at these events. >> >> >> Note: While the Board has discussed this on a prior occasion, other than >> voting down the “no alcohol at all” motion on the floor at that time, the >> Board has not codified what is acceptable. This motion is not designed to >> set a new precedent, but to codify our understanding of the Board’s decision. >> >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Ray Keeler >> >> NSS 23245 >> >> Current Arizona Region President >> >> Former NSS EVP, AVP, and Director >> >> . >> >> >> >> >> __,_._,___ >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers >> <https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/009301d2e30a%244607a550%24d216eff0%24%40net >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/009301d2e30a%244607a550%24d216eff0%24%40net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers >> <https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/15c9a33c3e7-5490-7449%40webprd-m09.mail.aol.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/15c9a33c3e7-5490-7449%40webprd-m09.mail.aol.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers > <https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/e0738b1f-25d4-395e-ea38-ef99193966db%40thuntek.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/e0738b1f-25d4-395e-ea38-ef99193966db%40thuntek.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:swrcav...@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers > <https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/CANG-PnbRO%2B0Ski%3DwE3T-Us-Pwb4umzeFPpM9gRh3b216GSh75w%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/CANG-PnbRO%2B0Ski%3DwE3T-Us-Pwb4umzeFPpM9gRh3b216GSh75w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
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