The critical thing in interesting new cavers is achieving the sense of exploration - of the unknown. We need more caves like Wind and Sand (BLM, Guadalupe Mnts), which are complicated to the point of being bewildering to new cavers (or Eastern cavers used to stream passages), without delineated trails. Regardless of how beautiful or unusual a cave is, being confined to taped trails makes it too much like visiting museums and being warned not to get closer than three feet from the art. That was part of my experience growing up, but doesn't fit into the experience or interests of most young people today. Preserving caving as a sport and an adventure is a different challenge than preserving caves. Once people are hooked on caves they may be more easily introduced to cave conservation, etc., lacking which it is too cerebral for most, and they quickly become tired, bored and looking for the next short lived adventure.
M On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 11:58 PM, Michael Queen <jmofgu...@gmail.com> wrote: > When I have been asked about newbies going to Lech I have always stressed > the skills and general fitness and competence needed. However, I have also > said that someone with determination and w/o too serious health issues can > undertake learning and practice, attach oneself to smaller mapping projects > and learn some skills so as to make oneself useful, and they could hope to > get into the cave, perhaps on project trips if not exploration. And I know > several people who have done just that. Our grotto chairman is a new caver > but has done a whole bunch of caves in just a few years, is strong, > vertically competent , and is becoming a mapper. He recently went into Lech > and did fine. The idea and perception of extreme exclusivity and > cliquishness is hugely counter-productive. Being encouraging is not the > same as casually suggesting that just anyone can go. > > As someone who has occasionally caved in penny loafers and flannel slacks > (after dinner with the governor in Bermuda - an island of 60 thousand, so > caving with the governor is about the same as caving with the mayor of > Carlsbad, but just more formal), I am not put off by someone who attends a > meeting for the first time in semiformal attire. What did she wear the > second time? Some people are just more formal than others, and it has > nothing to do with experience or capabilities. I'd suggest that it is no > stranger than the Randy Gandy folk? One friend drives a classic Aston > Martin, but is perfectly comfortable slogging through the mud with the rest > of us. Being flexible is as much a state of mind as a state of one's > physical body. > > M > > On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Lynda Sanchez <diamond...@pvtnetworks.net > > wrote: > >> I sent her more information about the book, referred her to the website >> (fscsp) and also to Pete should she want a copy of the book. She was >> mainly interested in the book as a source of information and history. In >> the future I will direct anyone either to Pete or to the website. I think >> sometimes speaking to a “real” person helps too. >> >> It wouldn’t hurt if the Sandia Grotto folks would write up some of their >> field trips and things they do like the clean up at Sandia Cave. That >> article was very good, and more of that kind of thing is needed in all >> areas where grottos exist. It is a good way to recruit when people >> associate the name with a great learning experience or field trip. >> >> Lynda >> >> *From:* Linda Starr <lstarr...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 12, 2017 12:54 PM >> *To:* Lynda Sanchez <diamond...@pvtnetworks.net> >> *Cc:* Dwight <dirt...@comcast.net> ; TAG Net <tag-...@hiddenworld.net> ; Cave >> Texas <Texascavers@texascavers.com> ; Cave NM >> <swrcav...@googlegroups.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [SWR CAVERS] 12 miles in USA Today >> >> Lynda, >> What did you tell the UNM student? The Sandia Grotto meets the 1st >> Tuesday of each month and we intend to have a recreational trip for new >> cavers once a month. Please direct anyone near Albuquerque to the Sandia >> Grotto. When we were doing this book, I didn't think of the opportunity to >> recruit new members. If you need an address, it's on our website and we >> also have a Facebook page. Pete is in charge of the grotto website. I >> don't have a URL offhand. >> >> Linda Starr >> >> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Lynda Sanchez < >> diamond...@pvtnetworks.net> wrote: >> >>> Dwight, it might get some folks interested and that is a first step. >>> However, they also have to have caves to explore and this is a major >>> problem at the moment in many areas. We try to provide activities for all >>> levels of ability and interest. That is why we mention ridge walking and >>> other surface activities. We have gotten help in those areas too and >>> eventually those folks are great support. >>> >>> We have had many inquiries about this book from both cavers and >>> non-cavers. As a result of this USATODAY article, today I received a phone >>> call from a student at UNM wanting to know more. >>> >>> Once you get younger folks out into the real world of mountains, deserts >>> and canyons, caves are not far behind, IF we can find some to explore that >>> is?!! >>> >>> We will keep you posted. >>> >>> Lynda >>> >>> *From:* Dwight <dirt...@comcast.net> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2017 6:10 PM >>> *To:* TAG Net <tag-...@hiddenworld.net> ; Cave Texas >>> <Texascavers@texascavers.com> ; Cave NM <swrcav...@googlegroups.com> >>> *Subject:* [SWR CAVERS] 12 miles in USA Today >>> >>> New Mexico's Lincoln County, Snowy River and Fort Stanton Cave make >>> headlines in USA TODAY! >>> >>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/local/2017/07/05/snowy-r >>> iver-book-sold-fort-stanton-live/453916001/ >>> >>> Will this bring us some new NSS members? >>> >>> This news release does refer interested individuals to the Fort Stanton >>> Cave Study Project web site, but that is clearly written for established >>> cavers. It gives the dates for the upcoming project schedule. >>> >>> Your web site is wonderful, conveys the right message, and is very >>> educational. You list a series of requirements for participation in work >>> trips and then say: >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> The FSCSP is unable to accommodate persons not possessing all of the >>> above skills, attitudes and equipment during project events in caves. >>> However you are welcome to join us in surface events where we perform other >>> work including ridge-walking and various scientific activities such as >>> geophysical surveys during regular or special expeditions. >>> >>> Fort Stanton Cave is a publicly-owned resource and sections of the cave >>> have been available in the past for recreational trips under a permit >>> system from April 15 through October 31. Although the cave is currently >>> closed to the general public because of White Nose Syndrome requirements, >>> in the future interested persons may contact the BLM >>> <http://www.blm.gov/nm/st/en/prog/recreation/roswell/fort_stanton_nca.html> >>> for information concerning application >>> <http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nm/programs/recreation/rec_docs.Par.35039.File.dat/Cave_Application.pdf> >>> for a public entrance permit, or directly at the Roswell BLM office,. In >>> addition to the SWR <http://www.caves.org/region/swr/>, the BLM also >>> may be able to provide contact information for caving clubs where >>> appropriate experience may be gained to enable future participation in >>> FSCSP projects. >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ----------------------- >>> >>> How do you plan to respond to inquiries from non-cavers in light of this >>> discussion of getting new NSS members? It does not seem very welcoming but >>> clearly this is something that needs to be dealt with on an individual >>> basis. The implication is that you will refer them to a local grotto. It's >>> not clear what the SWR is, but you can find out by clicking on the link. >>> >>> It will be interesting to see how many inquiries the FSCSP and the BLM >>> get from non-cavers and cavers who are not NSS members. I would say that >>> this is both an opportunity and a worth-while experiment. Keep us posted! >>> >>> DirtDoc >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms >>> gid/swrcavers/697504109.76014883.1499818206766.JavaMail.zimb >>> ra%40comcast.net >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/697504109.76014883.1499818206766.JavaMail.zimbra%40comcast.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms >>> gid/swrcavers/C998E276A46641F99889B39BF46D3E9A%40LyndaPC >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/C998E276A46641F99889B39BF46D3E9A%40LyndaPC?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>> >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms >> gid/swrcavers/CAN_2HoHy%2BJu9KtJxEqenkU%2BGxK%2BG6LjKDP- >> 44Urg%2Bbf_oVtK4Q%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/CAN_2HoHy%2BJu9KtJxEqenkU%2BGxK%2BG6LjKDP-44Urg%2Bbf_oVtK4Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to swrcav...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/swrcavers. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ms >> gid/swrcavers/0AB498B538C843E88F77EEAC814D193F%40LyndaPC >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/0AB498B538C843E88F77EEAC814D193F%40LyndaPC?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > >
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