Thanks Max for taking the time to write this very appropriate and thorough answer. Basile
> Le 20 juin 2021 à 19:35, Massimiliano Gubinelli <m.gubine...@gmail.com> a > écrit : > > Dear Martin, > > let me add some more perspective and some numbers, since you seems to be new > to this project and maybe unfamiliar with it. > > You can check here some metrics: > > https://www.openhub.net/p/texmacs <https://www.openhub.net/p/texmacs> > > TeXmacs has ~250.000 lines of C++ and ~200.000 lines of Scheme code. The > great majority of this code has been written by Joris since 17 years: > > https://www.openhub.net/p/texmacs/contributors/summary > <https://www.openhub.net/p/texmacs/contributors/summary> > > I've joined the project in 2006 and I witnessed the constant work which Joris > delivers in bugfixes, new substantial features, quality control over > contributions by others, etc.. It is fair to say that a large community of > users profits everyday from this work. > > As for documentation we have a 260 pages user manual, a 50 pages developer > guide and a 150 pages manual for the scheme extensions. All free and > available in the program. There is a forum and a blog > > https://texmacs.github.io/notes/docs/main.html > <https://texmacs.github.io/notes/docs/main.html> > > with some tutorials. > > Joris himself created also few video tutorials (the only one available so > far), available on youtube and on our own web site. > > So I find quite puzzling your critique, and frankly quite unjust. Maybe were > you not aware of their existence? > > I feel that Joris has the right to write and distribute whatever he likes, > especially given the fact that his contribution to the project is already > substantial without the book. I personally bought several copies to give as > gift to friends. > > I do not share the opinion of Alvaro that the book should be made free. The > program is free software and everybody can write documentation, tutorials for > it. Is not the obligation of Joris to do more than he already does and I'm > quite fine with him publishing a great book for 50 euros, as I would be if he > would publish a literary work with a standard publisher. You cannot compare a > book with a small distribution like one on TeXmacs with a widespread book on > Algebra used by many more students. As with other publications students can > ask libraries to but the book, libraries which already have books on TeX and > LaTeX which are similarly prices: Lamport's LaTeX book is $44 euros on amazon: > > https://www.amazon.com/LaTeX-Document-Preparation-System-2nd/dp/0201529831 > <https://www.amazon.com/LaTeX-Document-Preparation-System-2nd/dp/0201529831> > > But, as everybody using TeXmacs regularly knows, you do not have to have the > book to use it. Many of us learned to use TeXmacs before and without Joris' > book. You can go in the forum and ask information, you can read the sources > and see how to do something, you can read the blog for specific tutorials > written by other collaborators like Giovanni. > > TeXmacs is a great project I'm quite proud to contribute to. I never felt any > problem with Joris' book. > > Open source projects needs support and love from users which understand and > value the dedication and hard work needed to make them successful. > > Best regards, > Massimiliano Gubinelli > > > >> On 20. Jun 2021, at 13:14, Alvaro Tejero Cantero <alv...@minin.es >> <mailto:alv...@minin.es>> wrote: >> >> I want to add perspective. TeXmacs provides unique functions on top of a >> fairly complete 'normal word processor'. Openoffice had at some point >100 >> paid programmers working on it [0] - for many years, Joris was able to >> provide most of the functionality, and then some more (remember TeXmacs is a >> typesetter), while essentially working alone and building a successful >> career as a mathematician. That he wrote extensive documentation along the >> way, always accessible from the program itself, available on the web (pdf, >> html) and increasingly complemented by discoverable, self-documenting >> interfaces, makes this feat even more impressive. TeXmacs is not one of >> those programs where somebody is having fun coding while neglecting >> documentation and expecting somebody to take care of it. Much to the >> contrary, TeXmacs is well-documented since the beginning, and all this >> documentation was always under free licenses. >> >> Now, the conversation was rather concretely about Joris' recent book[1]. The >> book is a work of love to typography and scientific document creation, and >> gives some additional perspectives on TeXmacs, but while I enjoy reading it >> and learn new things, I recognise that most (all?) the practical information >> inside it was available in various ways already. I do welcome the prospect >> of the book being liberated in the future, but I also feel an overwhelming >> gratitude to Joris for all the work that he has done above and beyond what >> he needed for his own purposes -- in adapting the program and explaining it >> -- all in free terms. >> >> We could have an abstract discussion and conclude that a restrictive >> copyright book is less desirable than a free book. This is also my >> viewpoint, and I wish that we all will buy that free edition just the same >> if/when it comes out, and also donate to the project [2]. But it would be >> ungrateful to forget that in this particular case, the author already made a >> long, consistent end exhaustive effort over years to document the program >> under a free license. >> >> Best regards, >> Álvaro. >> >> [0] >> https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/08/biztech/articles/31sun.html >> >> <https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/tech/99/08/biztech/articles/31sun.html> >> StarDivision had 200 employees when sold to Sun in 1999; I later read this >> 100 figure about the Sun time but I haven been able to find a citation. >> Libreoffice started with >200 contributions, today they are countless. >> [1] http://www.texmacs.org/joris/tm/tm-abs.html >> <http://www.texmacs.org/joris/tm/tm-abs.html> >> [2] https://www.texmacs.org/tmweb/contribute/donations.en.html >> <https://www.texmacs.org/tmweb/contribute/donations.en.html> >> >> On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 at 12:06, ederag <ed...@gmx.fr <mailto:ed...@gmx.fr>> >> wrote: >> Dear Joris, >> >> On dimanche 20 juin 2021 11:26:58 CEST TeXmacs wrote: >> > There is a fairly complete integrated manual that is also available in Pdf >> > form from our website. Of course, further contributions are always >> > welcome, >> > also on other types of documentation such as tutorials or videos. >> >> >> True. >> >> Thank you Joris for your dedication to free software. >> >> Hopefully others will reconsider whether pursuing this thread is the >> smartest move, >> especially when the 2.1 release is so close. >> >> Best regards, >> Ederag >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Texmacs-dev mailing list >> Texmacs-dev@gnu.org <mailto:Texmacs-dev@gnu.org> >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/texmacs-dev >> <https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/texmacs-dev> >> _______________________________________________ >> Texmacs-dev mailing list >> Texmacs-dev@gnu.org <mailto:Texmacs-dev@gnu.org> >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/texmacs-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Texmacs-dev mailing list > Texmacs-dev@gnu.org > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/texmacs-dev
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